M65
More Nanny State Rubbish
December 10 2016
Comments
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RHP User
9 years ago
'City Hall'
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RHP User
9 years ago
Like most I grew up saying it wont happen to me.Fishing---- I was at lights beach when out of nowherea freak wave about 2.5 metres high took to off the rocksbut was lucky I had esky in one hand and sealed bucket inthe other that stopped me from being dragged under so, iflife jacket saves one life from having said rule lets have the rule. As for seat belts they annoy the crap out of me but face the facts they do save lives and if not reduce at least fatal injury. As an adult there is no way I would say it wont happen to mebecause I found out it can.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'chevtrek' Like most I grew up saying it wont happen to me.Fishing---- I was at lights beach when out of nowherea freak wave about 2.5 metres high took to off the rocksbut was lucky I had esky in one hand and sealed bucket inthe other that stopped me from being dragged under so, iflife jacket saves one life from having said rule lets have the rule. As for seat belts they annoy the crap out of me but face the facts they do save lives and if not reduce at least fatal injury. As an adult there is no way I would say it wont happen to mebecause I found out it can. as a law that you can be fined for not wearing the life jacket, or as a strongly suggested item? Google "death during bondage" - following the "if it saves on life it is worth it" logic I cannot think of any course of action but to ban shibari and the sale of rope to adults who don't have some sort of abseiling certification. (I considered the mandatory wearing of a hard throat protector so that strangulation cannot occur, and banning ball gags due to the choking risk - but it just seems so unsafe, every years hundreds or thousands of people die from sex play gone wrong, be it auto-erotic, or with a partner. Even something as seemingly harmless as being wrapped in cling film ended up in dehydration, heart attack - one man dead and another locked up for 5 years) Ban sex, the life it saves may be your own ;) (or maybe instead we could just have laws protecting others (like the seat belt rules for kids) )
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RHP User
9 years ago
...at my favourite haunt an especially stupid specimen wearing...wait for it....bare feet!...and on Xmas Day another clever fellow wearing his life jacket...over a naked torso...that would've been hilarious...barrelled along the barnacles and ripped to shreds to end up floating in his life-jacket with a cloud of his blood around him...dinner time for the men in grey suits! Priceless!
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RHP User
9 years ago
...none of them were fishing...just a day out for idiots on the rocks. Shall we now demand that everyone who decides to leave the beach and venture onto the rocks shall wear life jackets...cleats...crash helmets....perhaps protective clothing too (there were some great barnacle grazes)..???? Oh, and one of the 'victims' was accorded expert witness capacity...breathless, she told the reporter "there were 3 'freak waves'"...so there must have been...right...she said it!!! Obviously they had been watching the swell closely before deciding to take their lives in their hands. Pricelss
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RHP User
9 years ago
It kinda seems like your argument isn't that it won't save lives, it's that people who get washed over are idiots and they deserve death.
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RHP User
9 years ago
I'm getting that sense too. Finally starting to make sense.the thread is more attached to the implication in Summer's early post? Peachy
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RHP User
9 years ago
...No, I do not wish death for anyone. My argument has been and remains that (1) you cannot legislate to prevent stupidity...and (2) people should be free to do as they choose, AND wear the consequences. So, as far as Rockfishing goes, no life jacket laws. Simply allow the rocks to be enjoyed and accept the fact that there are consequences for venturing onto them that require no legislation/regulation. I think you two are reacting more to the directness of my take on people's stupidity than the issue. I know it is unfashionable to say there are stupid people, but that does not remove the empirical fact...perhaps someone kinder might say 'ignorant', but that leads to the folly of thinking that we can educate away all evils. Fpr example, schools are already overburdened with all sorts of 'educative' tasks aimed at remedying social and moral evils and now with the spate of drownings over the holidays I can see another one being added..."compulsory swimming lessons"...One wonders at what point it will become obvious to even the most bleeding heart that the State cannot save us from harm...that responsibility falls to each of us as individuals.
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RHP User
9 years ago
John isn't saying you wish them death though. He seems to be saying pretty much the same as you but more directly. I like the idea of compulsory swimming, it's good in so many ways as well as being fun. And a quick look assures me someone did indeed bring up compulsory swimming in 2016. The helmets I can do without. Seatbelts, I'll say a big yes to. Educating people makes sense to me, what they don't know can kill them. Peachy
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'Masculine55' Fpr example, schools are already overburdened with all sorts of 'educative' tasks aimed at remedying social and moral evils and now with the spate of drownings over the holidays I can see another one being added..."compulsory swimming lessons"...One wonders at what point it will become obvious to even the most bleeding heart that the State cannot save us from harm...that responsibility falls to each of us as individuals. I don't know where you went to high school, but my parents born in '55 had compulsory school swimming as part of sport/PE classes along with swimming carnivals, and I had school swimming as part of mine too (all public school, nothing fancy). This wasn't an extra class, it was during the standard school sport/PE classes. But, as you can see form my earlier posts, I agree with the general thrust of your argument. I also think, at what point is it that we have to say "enough, I thank you for your kind thoughts for my safety, but you are overstepping into my enjoyment of this activity". I refer back to another life threatening pastime "BDSM", should the govt ban it under the "one life saved makes it worth it" doctrine? (I'd like to make it clear to all that this is a friendly exchange of views, lest someone decide we "disagreed" and that this must be deleted)
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RHP User
9 years ago
For people on busy roads and going at high speed I think they should wear helmets. I'll take the chance of killing myself off on the footpath sans helmet. Peachy
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'S_OnTheLoose'Quoting 'Masculine55' Fpr example, schools are already overburdened with all sorts of 'educative' tasks aimed at remedying social and moral evils and now with the spate of drownings over the holidays I can see another one being added..."compulsory swimming lessons"...One wonders at what point it will become obvious to even the most bleeding heart that the State cannot save us from harm...that responsibility falls to each of us as individuals. I don't know where you went to high school, but my parents born in '55 had compulsory school swimming as part of sport/PE classes along with swimming carnivals, and I had school swimming as part of mine too (all public school, nothing fancy). This wasn't an extra class, it was during the standard school sport/PE classes. But, as you can see form my earlier posts, I agree with the general thrust of your argument. I also think, at what point is it that we have to say "enough, I thank you for your kind thoughts for my safety, but you are overstepping into my enjoyment of this activity". I refer back to another life threatening pastime "BDSM", should the govt ban it under the "one life saved makes it worth it" doctrine? (I'd like to make it clear to all that this is a friendly exchange of views, lest someone decide we "disagreed" and that this must be deleted) I had a quick google before I posted above because I wasn't sure swimming was compulsory. From the various articles over the last few months, Masculine is on the ball with the idea of someone wanting swimming lessons to be compulsory. It only makes sense in this country, in my opinion. I copied and pasted this bit from an article by Herald Sun. Peachy "May 13, 2016 - EVERY child in Australia will secure water safety and swimming lessons at primary school under a Labor government if Bill Shorten is elected."
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'PeachyPearL' I had a quick google before I posted above because I wasn't sure swimming was compulsory. From the various articles over the last few months, Masculine is on the ball with the idea of someone wanting swimming lessons to be compulsory. It only makes sense in this country, in my opinion. I copied and pasted this bit from an article by Herald Sun. Peachy "May 13, 2016 - EVERY child in Australia will secure water safety and swimming lessons at primary school under a Labor government if Bill Shorten is elected." In NSW we currently have every year 2-6 primary student given swimming lessons paid for by govt (parents pay the transport and pool entry fee, but the lesson itself is free). I some primary school in Perth, and we had swimming lessons there (public school). Which states don't do school swimming already? We even had swimming in primary in the UK, and you'd think it would've philosophically opposed there for being too much like taking a bath ;) I thought this was common sense: " Emergency Services Minister David Elliott pleaded on Tuesday for people to take responsibility for their safety, saying he was horrified that some people lived in NSW and did not know how to swim."Government can't be at every creek. Government can't be on every river bank. Government can't be at every beach. Government can't be in every backyard pool. That's why we've got to work collaboratively with the community," he said." But here, school swimming can replace other school sport day activities.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Queensland, it's a bloody disgrace. In WA every child learns to swim. In Queensland, they still drown in dams 👎 it made me so angry when we lived there. On paper, I don't know what official stance they have, but I can tell you the only swimming lessons we could get our kids was at a local pool in a crappy above ground pool, like an afterthought shoved off to the side of the main pool. After school, not through the school. And the people teaching had no interest in whether your kids actually learned to swim or not, there were no certificates given, it was a disgrace. Yes there are swimming clubs but EVERY child should be taught to swim properly. I meet guys who can't swim because they're not from Australia and for whatever reason, never learnt to swim, and that scares me. Queensland or WA? Queensland has some catching up to do, in a lot of areas. WA is big on swimming, a big focus is put on it, as it should be. Comment above re large country town, and too long ago to remember detail. The reality for us was our kids were able to be taught properly only when we moved back to WA. It was like the dinosaur age over there. Actually the town was prehistoric lol the city areas might be different but the point is it should be the same anywhere, city/country, shouldn't make a difference. As a disclaimer, they might have had swimming within the schools, but not like vacswim here, it was a half hearted attempt to make it appear they were teaching kids to swim. Hence why I took them to the other 'lessons'. Total waste of time. Just not a priority in that area at least
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RHP User
9 years ago
...there are 5 hours and 20 teaching minutes in each Primary School Day; which subject or activity would those in favour of compulsory swimming like to jettison on the compulsory swimming day? Nor is it just the time the lesson takes. Most State schools do not have swimming pools. So, transport has to be arranged and fees paid. What about the kiddies whose parents cannot or will not cough up? Additional adults must also be organised, courtesy of OH&S...both for the bus trip and for supervision at the pool. Then there's the time taken getting changed, into togs, then changed again after the lesson...and that makes a real issue for Male Primary School teachers. They cannot possibly be going into changing sheds, those potential paedohpiles in the eyes of many! More so if they elect to teach the younger grades (in a former life I was Townsville's ONLY male Year One teacher). Eventually, a 20 minute swimming lesson turns into a 90 minute circus...and for all the Social Justice warriors, Independent schools do have swimming pools. How unfair!!! Apologies if I sound trite, but...like many activities that are currently part of the school curriculum which should not be, children learning to swim is a parental responsibility!..and yes, I remember when I was 6...50 years ago next month...swimming was compulsory...the nation's population then was 12 million...teachers were one-year trained...there was no such thing as OH&S...and education was not considered the vehicle for rectifying perceived social injustices. Kisses to all
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RHP User
9 years ago
Is wasted on a corpse. My kids learnt to swim at school here in WA and there is very little abstentions as I recall. Wouldn't have it any other way. And I don't remember being asked to pay extra, many families who don't have transport or the money to do it privately get there kids waterproofed, it just makes sense to me.
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RHP User
9 years ago
The first answer that comes to hand that you might consider random Loose is that I know British Migrants who don't know how to swim, common sense was something the State didn't provide as part of their care. I promised not to push them into the water we were walking across as we talked about it... Lol at 'cold baths'. Agreeably, in Australia it does make a lot of sense to make swimming the sport activity in summer considering the heat and lack of air conditioning at schools. But for details, I was approaching from the point that Masculine said swimming would be made compulsory next, quite literally. Simply said, the few articles I looked at could not confirm specifically that swimming was compulsory and there is the quote from my post. I thought swimming was compulsory before I googled, so that was news to me. I touch, born and bred WAer here. I was really lucky that the first high school I went to built a pool while I was there. I never did pass my senior certificate though. Something about not being able to swim back and forth enough times? *cough* Masculine, it is your topic. I do get how you feel about precious time. Our local pool luckily is a few short minutes away but yes it does take up a bit of time I imagine gathering up the kids etc. I used to love that too, lol. I'm not sure how we managed with the teachers but we did. Hated those change rooms, no privacy. It makes sense to me on some level considering the heat in summer when lessons are usually scheduled. It's hard to think when it's so hot! Happy Birthday for next month! ;-) Another POV, from my experience, it is getting harder for parents that they don't have time to dedicate to bringing up their children because they both have to work. They don't get to see each other a lot. I liked the world I grew up in a lot better... which according to something I was reading yesterday was a lot more tolerant back then. Thanks for the topic, it has been a good way to excercise my mind. :-) Peachy
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RHP User
9 years ago
Swim school schemes are one of the standard offerings for many schools, both primary and high schools, as part of a summer sports program, and not in lieu of the other curriculum offerings that teachers need to deliver as part of what is traditionally viewed as the role of schools. I think there are a great many things that teachers do that may be part of the suite of skills that society would traditionally see as being the job of parents. For many reasons, not all parents are able to fulfil these rolls - often due to disadvantage, or lack of understanding due to cultural backgrounds, etc. I'm all in favour of teachers educating the WHOLE child, and providing education and support to families and communities through whatever means necessary. I don't agree that legislating for safety, or indeed educating for it, constitutes "Nanny State" behaviour - I'd be pointing to China's impending embedding social ranking system as a way of ensuring individual compliance as a more effective example of that.
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RHP User
9 years ago
"This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...it is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be performing which could eventually lead to The Death Penalty (or affect your parents' credit rating). Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things... and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called MUSIC! Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution (which, itself, is being modified in order to accommodate THE FUTURE). I bring you now a special presentation to show what can happen to you if you choose a career in MUSIC . . . The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only. . . if you have to load or unload, go to the WHITE ZONE... you 'll love it... it 's a way of life . . . This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only... [etc.]" Frank Zappa
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RHP User
9 years ago
Buy some shares in a fruit company.
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RHP User
9 years ago
...hilariously funny and a wonderful muso to boot! Discoverer/Promoter of Alice Cooper, Tim Buckley, Captain Beefheart and half the guys who ever played good Jazz as well (George Duke and Jean Luc Ponty spring immediately to mind). Fiercely entrepreneurial, a hard task-master but also completely professional. Word has it he rehearsed 7 days a week for months before touring and anyone who missed a practice was sent home on the next train. Great political satirist too; Son of Orange County is one of my favourites....and then, of course, is all the risque pornographic stuff...The Mudshark is indelibly imprinted on my mind, as is Dinamo Hum...I suspect his characterisation of Americans as 'dumb all over, a little ugly on the side' would play well with the present-day anti-Trump brigade although I think Frank actually loved his fellow citizens. FZ was also a contributing factor to my divorce; me Ex forbade me play him when she was around (LPs). I sold my entire FZ record collection when relocating from Yeppoon to Melbourne in 2003. 30 plus albums stretching from 'We're only in it for the Money" through to "Zoot Allures"...for, wait for it...$20.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'that50zguy' Buy some shares in a fruit company. 'Forrest Gump’s Investment In Apple Would Be Worth $7 Billion Today' By Killian Bell • 5:57 am, July 16, 2012
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RHP User
9 years ago
Yep and a fair wack of that would be from iTunes, hence my comment.
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