F63
"The right to say "NO"
October 23 2011
Comments
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think the right of refusal is always there BUT............sometimes it's not very nice. When someone takes it too far into the date and things are hot, hot, hot and they call it off for a headfuck or some other reason. Not nice but no is always, always, always no. I'm not disingenuous (too late in the night for the correct spelling if this is wrong) so i would never lead anyone on. If i'm getting hot and heavy with you it's because i fully intend to take it as far as i can ride it but I maintain the right to call everything off. If you think you're going bareback with me for starters you are very sadly mistaken and if you try to insist expect the harshest reaction up to but not excluding a punch in the balls.
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RHP User
14 years ago
there is no 'line'...........to suggest that there is, is not reasonable. at every point of contact, there is always 'no', and theres no argument that would support otherwise......yes your honour, she said 'no', but i couldnt stop because the 'line' had been crossed.....is not a defence. it doesnt matter if anyone says 'yes' a thousand times....they only need say 'no' once. beginning, middle and absolute end of argument..........tell all those people who have suffered rape, that its their fault...it was too late to say no, because of some invisible line....i'm sure it will bring them some peace.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'goodgrlzsayplz' I think the right of refusal is always there BUT............sometimes it's not very nice. When someone takes it too far into the date and things are hot, hot, hot and they call it off for a headfuck or some other reason. Not nice but no is always, always, always no. I'm not disingenuous (too late in the night for the correct spelling if this is wrong) so i would never lead anyone on. If i'm getting hot and heavy with you it's because i fully intend to take it as far as i can ride it but I maintain the right to call everything off. If you think you're going bareback with me for starters you are very sadly mistaken and if you try to insist expect the harshest reaction up to but not excluding a punch in the balls. While it's not always fun to get a "no" right at the last second, and can by physically painful - "blue balls" anyone? - it's always far less painful to bow out gracefully - or as gracefully as possible - than the alternative..
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RHP User
14 years ago
your final comment made my eyes water!
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RHP User
14 years ago
Oh RC, I'm a pussycat, really I have been on the receiving end of someone who didn't care about my health and had to take a trip to the doc because of it. I don't wish that trip on anyone. I have prided myself on my sexual health and responsible behaviour in this game and my concern not only for my own health but the health of my lovers always comes first(a number who have become treasured friends to my surprise), that's all. xxgoodgrl
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RHP User
14 years ago
I'm assuming that you did not necessarily mean that there is a point at which someone loses their RIGHT to say no, more a case that there is a point at which (if there are no extenuating circumstances) to say no "just for fun" is really just plain nasty and disrespectful.I'm assuming that a change in game plan calling a halt is not what you had in mind.For example, there are a number of sexual practices that make me very uncomfortable, if someone tries that on me, even in the heat of the moment, damn straight I'm going to shut the gates and tell them to fuck off. I didn't agree to it, I find it unpleasant, if you try it anyway you lose access rights altogether. As goodgrlz says, bareback is one of those things, my profile states safe sex and I bloody well mean it. So, my interpretation of Fiona's question, is more "Does there come a point at which it is inappropriate to say no without a damn good reason?"
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RHP User
14 years ago
That is it. No one ever loses the absolute right to say noand that has been a long and arduously fought battle won. Nothing can take that away. Personally I find it a little black and white...too clear cut for me to say NEVER EVER UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES. I know Mikeand shel that it would never stand up in court. I am certainly not that stupid nor am I that naive but I do definately think there is an invisible line yes. There are things that I will call a halt to as well. We need to remember when answering this question that not all people play fair. Not all are out for thier own fun, many have a hidden agenda and will play with a "mind fuck" as thier agenda.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I agree with the comments above. A person always can say no at any point, your right of refusal is never rescinded. Xx Meeka
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'LadyWench' I'm assuming that you did not necessarily mean that there is a point at which someone loses their RIGHT to say no, more a case that there is a point at which (if there are no extenuating circumstances) to say no "just for fun" is really just plain nasty and disrespectful.I'd consider a "no" under those circumstances to be an escape route. If somebody's going to play those kinds of mind games on me, I'd very happy to get out.I'm assuming that a change in game plan calling a halt is not what you had in mind.For example, there are a number of sexual practices that make me very uncomfortable, if someone tries that on me, even in the heat of the moment, damn straight I'm going to shut the gates and tell them to fuck off. I didn't agree to it, I find it unpleasant, if you try it anyway you lose access rights altogether. As goodgrlz says, bareback is one of those things, my profile states safe sex and I bloody well mean it. Agree with ^--^. Definitely some things make me uncomfortable too...So, my interpretation of Fiona's question, is more "Does there come a point at which it is inappropriate to say no without a damn good reason?" That would imply that there is a certain obligation to proceed, would it not? I have to say that I'm uncomfortable with that idea. What constitutes a damn good reason?
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RHP User
14 years ago
LadyWench, it is never inappropriate to say no, whatever the circumstances. Everybody has the right to say no always, and only people who respect that right have the right to call themselves human beings. Even if you are meeting someone for a nsa fuck and nothing else, the sex will not be good unless both parties respect each other at all times. I have been to a few parties in recent times and had a ball. I have never received a knock back from a lady that I have asked to play with me. At one party, I even had the unexpected pleasure of a lady asking me to play again, after we played about a half an hour earlier. Why? Because I showed her respect and made sure that she was comfortable with everything we did. If aeveryone did that, there would be no problems.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sadly not everyone will respect you 100% of the time. l So let us say for instance, (totally fictitious by the way) a woman has been messed around mentally a bit by a few men, let down, dissappointed and generally treated like shit. This fictitious woman has a mental illness but as a man you are unaware of this. She plays the game really well, there is absolutely no telling that she does have a mental condition or a hidden agenda. (Psyc drugs are very effective after all) You chat for a while, organise a meet and end up in bed. All is going well...or so you think. You as a man, get all super excited (she is a great looker) and assume she is too as she has already had one massive orgasm. Then during intercourse, you are getting so very close to orgasm, her agenda kicks in and she starts yelling, "No. No. I dont want to anymore , stop." Is it still apropriate? Is it still not crossing that invisible line? Sure it is her right to say no anytime she likes and no doubt you have lost your erection by now anyway. But IS it right?
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Sadly not everyone will respect you 100% of the time. l So let us say for instance, (totally fictitious by the way) a woman has been messed around mentally a bit by a few men, let down, dissappointed and generally treated like shit. This fictitious woman has a mental illness but as a man you are unaware of this. She plays the game really well, there is absolutely no telling that she does have a mental condition or a hidden agenda. (Psyc drugs are very effective after all) You chat for a while, organise a meet and end up in bed. All is going well...or so you think. You as a man, get all super excited (she is a great looker) and assume she is too as she has already had one massive orgasm. Then during intercourse, you are getting so very close to orgasm, her agenda kicks in and she starts yelling, "No. No. I dont want to anymore , stop." Is it still apropriate? Is it still not crossing that invisible line? Sure it is her right to say no anytime she likes and no doubt you have lost your erection by now anyway. But IS it right? yes it is. It may not feel right to be on the receiving end - in fact, I'd hate to have that happen to me - but right up to the point where it's all over, there is no invisible line IMHO. There could be a myriad of reasons as to why that might happen - mind games, hidden agenda, or just second thoughts - but if at any point either party decides not to proceed, then that's the end of it. The other party might well be justified in feeling ripped off, particularly in the circumstances you describe, but at the end of the day, no means no means no.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Sadly not everyone will respect you 100% of the time. l So let us say for instance, (totally fictitious by the way) a woman has been messed around mentally a bit by a few men, let down, dissappointed and generally treated like shit. This fictitious woman has a mental illness but as a man you are unaware of this. She plays the game really well, there is absolutely no telling that she does have a mental condition or a hidden agenda. (Psyc drugs are very effective after all) You chat for a while, organise a meet and end up in bed. All is going well...or so you think. You as a man, get all super excited (she is a great looker) and assume she is too as she has already had one massive orgasm. Then during intercourse, you are getting so very close to orgasm, her agenda kicks in and she starts yelling, "No. No. I dont want to anymore , stop." Is it still apropriate? Is it still not crossing that invisible line? Sure it is her right to say no anytime she likes and no doubt you have lost your erection by now anyway. But IS it right?yes its right. its 100% percent right. and always will be. and its no less right for the guy to say 'no' (tho less likely)......how can you even question this? in this so called 'enlightened' age? we can all say "NO" at any point of any interaction with another person or persons. that he or she says no is the only thing of importance at that moment, not how the other may or may not feel about it.........there are no 'lines' of behaviour, theres absolutely no 'gray' area either. it just is the way it is........
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RHP User
14 years ago
In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way)
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RHP User
14 years ago
So if someone is in a situation where they have chatted got cheeky with each other and because of that, you think they don't have a right to say NO That is so Wrong Did you know in a court of Law If the person says NO no matter what was talked about It means No No-one has the right to force issue's
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RHP User
14 years ago
Fionabee, what you describe is a very difficult situation, but I think that I would stop in that situation if that'a what the lady wanted. I was in a similar situation once with an escort. I was playing with her clit, she was breathing heavy and she was very close to orgasm. For some strange reason, she pleaded with me to stop and I did. To this day, I have no idea why. I could nnot believe why she didn't want to have an orgasm. It was her choice and I respected her wishes.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'sydneyboy3au' In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way) It isn't "right" to fuck anyone around, but I think the difficulty is in the fact we're discussing sexual acts. That, I feel, puts a whole different set of rules out there.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'sydneyboy3au' In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way) that I don't think using the term ' "right" in the moral sense ' presents a valid argument. To me, that implies there is a moral obligation to finish what was started. Again, I'd be pissed off if it happened to me, but I will never assume that there's an obligation to have sex.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'sydneyboy3au' In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way) that I don't think using the term ' "right" in the moral sense ' presents a valid argument. To me, that implies there is a moral obligation to finish what was started. Again, I'd be pissed off if it happened to me, but I will never assume that there's an obligation to have sex.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I have read quite a few posts on various forum topics sent by the person that started this particular conversation You are a very scary person - your point of view in differering situations is disgusting Cannot believe there are people out there who still believe what you do Trying to figure out if you're an antagonist or you really stand by the statements you make
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'rcflyer69' Quoting 'sydneyboy3au' In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way) that I don't think using the term ' "right" in the moral sense ' presents a valid argument. To me, that implies there is a moral obligation to finish what was started. Again, I'd be pissed off if it happened to me, but I will never assume that there's an obligation to have sex. absolutely correct..........nobody is 'obligated' to do anything. its only ever a choice. to do one thing, or another. if that thing changes halfway, threequarters, or even at the three-fifths of five-eighths point, what does it matter? if someone says 'no', its god damned 'no'.......yes someone might be disappointed, maybe even a bit peeved, but as 'adults' the only thing we can do is accept that the other person said no, and to do as they ask or say. no is no. its not maybe, or should, its no. end of story.......
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RHP User
14 years ago
Stop getting your kinickers in a knot and READ WHAT WAS WRITTEN instead of trying to read between the lines. It is in plain English after all No one said that at all. In fact I did distinctly mention the line that the law took. l Sorry Mike. I must dissagree once again. I find in life there is no balck and white. Everything is a shade of gray. We all have invisible lines that others cross. Even the law recognises mitigating circumstances......gray areas. l Forget the legalities of saying no for a second...if it makes it easier for those pedantic souls amonst us. Lets go with moralistic rights. Men do it all the time dont they? Shoot thier load, pull out and that is it. Just because the words "No" are not used, the game is often still over. So back to the scenario I penned above. If the boot was on the other foot, the woman has had an orgasm, the man is well on the way and she starts telling him to stop. Not quite...but nearly there. Okay we know he is gonna loose his erection about then anyway assuming he thinks something is terribly wrong.....morals folks as we all know the legal stance..... Is it right? l RCFlyer ...in the hypothetical situation above there is no obligation to have se. The couple are already having sex. The obligation has passed. It is actuality. Okay then as everyone seems hell bent on putting a legal spin on things. He is one scant minute away from orgasm.. she starts yelling stop, he ignores her for the few final thrusts it is gonna take for him to cross the finish line....is it rape? she did say no and he did continue.
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erotictouch4u
14 years ago
Quoting 'rcflyer69' Quoting 'fionabee' All is going well...or so you think. You as a man, get all super excited (she is a great looker) and assume she is too as she has already had one massive orgasm. Then during intercourse, you are getting so very close to orgasm, her agenda kicks in and she starts yelling, "No. No. I dont want to anymore , stop." Is it still apropriate? Is it still not crossing that invisible line? Sure it is her right to say no anytime she likes and no doubt you have lost your erection by now anyway. But IS it right? yes it is. It may not feel right to be on the receiving end - in fact, I'd hate to have that happen to me That is one reason why the wife and I have not been intimate for the last 2 years...too many "coincidences". I would get her rocks off with foreplay and then as I started she would yell out it started hurting and call it off, without any concern at all for me, just cold shoulder and no explainations or wanting to find out why. Did I press marital rights ? NO ! Did I get angry and abusive ? NO ! As any respecting gentleman does, I just accepted it and rolled over...but this dog doesn't lick that hand anymore. ET xox
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' If the boot was on the other foot, the woman has had an orgasm, the man is well on the way and she starts telling him to stop. Not quite...but nearly there. Okay we know he is gonna loose his erection about then anyway assuming he thinks something is terribly wrong.....morals folks as we all know the legal stance..... Is it right? l RCFlyer ...in the hypothetical situation above there is no obligation to have se. The couple are already having sex. The obligation has passed. It is actuality. Okay then as everyone seems hell bent on putting a legal spin on things. He is one scant minute away from orgasm.. she starts yelling stop, he ignores her for the few final thrusts it is gonna take for him to cross the finish line....is it rape? she did say no and he did continue. U Turn, with Sean Penn, Nick Nolte and Jennifer Lopez. Sean and Jennifer are going hammer and tongs in the forest, she yells for him to stop just at the last minute. He does, then proceeds to finish himself off in the bushes.Legalities aside, I just think that if one party says no, the other has the obligation to stop - moral obligation, if you like - regardless of where in the process it happens. Whether continuing constitutes rape or not....well, I can't answer that.Regarding your shoe being on the other foot scenario....that has happened to me. Disappointed? You bet, but I didn't feel then, nor do I now, that I had the right to push the issue. She decided she'd had enough, so that was that.
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RHP User
14 years ago
u changed what u were asking half way thru? made it more involved and added 'what ifs'...why? . adding clauses along the way, and changing your question to suit sounds like manipulation. if either party says no, at absolutely any point of the contact, then its no. whether that be before, after, during, or as a result of an orgasm is immaterial. no is no is no is no. 100% of the time, in 100% of the circumstances. at any point during sex, one or the other can say no...........and the other is obligated to listen and respond in the appropriate manner....by stopping. by not arguing. by not manipulating with guilt trips. and by not coercing the other to finish what had begun, but had prematurely been brought to a halt. ........thats like saying the girl who was drunk and said yes, but suddenly realised it wasnt what she wanted, has no right to say 'no', and is obligated to finish what she had erringly begun? suddenly rape becomes questionable...did she cross a point of no return? did crossing this point or line obligate her? void her rights? its like when Jenstas male friend pulled his cock out and asked her to suck it....had she crossed some imaginary line that made it ok for him to behave this way? no, she hadnt. being there with him did not obligate her in any way. she said no and left. any one can say no and leave, at any point, at any time.even at the point of the 'vinegar' stroke, the woman can say 'no' and leave. as rcflyer says, it might be annoying. or even disappointing..but reasonable people deal with that in reasonable ways........not by blindly continuing and ignoring their partners wishes.......there is no gray or any other colour at all in the word 'no'.......4 year olds understand the word, so why not adults?
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RHP User
14 years ago
I hereby and forever more reserve my right to say "next".HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
As a rape survivor I can't sit around after reading the load of garbage on this page! < FACT: Man in WA many years ago, has consensual sex with a girl...girl has her orgasm...girl tells man to STOP...man ignores her and keeps going for 10 more strokes.... RESULT: Man gets jailed for 10 years for rape....One year per stroke! Did he deserve it...HELL YES!! AND for the record...this is not my case, just a case that was in the media! < WHAT PART OF NO MEANS NO DON'T YOU GET FIONA? < I hope that you never EVER get to sit on a jury of a rape victim! Your reasoning is pathetic and misinformed! xFunlovingx
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RHP User
14 years ago
Exactally Right 100%
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RHP User
14 years ago
You better hope I am not sitting on the jury then as I have been known to get people to change thier minds. What part of NO dont I understand...lets see....the begining and the end oh and possibly the middle part as well. Not good at accepting NO I am afraid. I am, after all, entitled to MY OPINION . without the ridicule of others...am I not? Ever watch the movie "Beyond Reasonable Doubt"? It only takes one to change a whole jury. You may think he deserved every single year of that sentence and you are just as entitled to your opinion. I happen to feel differently. Did he deserve it IMO HELL NO!!! l Mike I can change my mind anytime I like...even half way through. right up to a few seconds from the proverbial vinegar stroke..... After all it is what you are all saying a person has the right to do, so dont complain when I do it. OH, maybe you would like to rephrase the before during and after part. I dont know about anyone else but saying "No" after the event has happened doesnt quite work the same way. l Stalky I am with you on this one....I reserve the same rights. l RCFlyer...you are without doubt a strong man with principles. I salute you.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I have worked in several male prisons, and seen some poor guys there that did not or could not stop right in the middle of sex. There is no line in the law. Any one hear of the thirty second rapist? The law is not always fair for women or men. But guys have to know that no matter how hard, how deep they are in a woman they have to pull out when that word NO is said. However some of these guys were in bed with young women who were below age, who had the makeup on who had the fake id who want home with them had sex no problem and then when the mother said where were you last night? Then they unleash hell. My advice to guys is even with ID aim for a few years over 18 just to be on the safe side. Ask all the way through sex, do you like this can I do this do you have a problem with this. May kill the joy a bit, but you do not want to be picking up soap in the sex offender unit. Another word of advice to not have sex with an intoxicated woman. She lacks the capacity to make a decision and that may impact on you.
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RHP User
14 years ago
'no' after the event? maybe a male....who is supersensitive after ejaculation....might say 'no' u have to stop now....... wonder if she would tho? if the woman orgasms...its then perhaps 'after' for her....might she say no? yes....what does the male do? a 'man' would do as she asks or tells him to do. sex isnt a business deal between normal consenting adults, unless one is a sex worker, plying his or her trade, so there is no 'obligation' to fulfill a service, or to deliver a product. the 'deal' is never made, between normal people, so no 'transaction' occurs. if she, or he says no............at any point.....normal reasonable people accept it as over..... they might be miffed, they might be diappointed, they might be lots of things, but normal reasonable and respectful people dont then insist that the act be completed, or satisfaction delivered...........there is and never will be an 'obligation' that one can hold over another........ you suggest that males might do this that or the other.....and ignore that men are telling you that we wouldnt....rcflyer would be a gentleman.....maybe a bit disappointed...as he has stated, and which i agree to as similar has happened to me...but he would do the right thing........ stalky isnt saying anything other than 'next'...which i take to mean...'give him someone who wont say no'........ what you intimate as likely seems to be highly unlikely... the vast majority of both men and women are much more respectful of others wishes than you seem to believe.....very few would cross this fictitional and imaginary 'line' of which you speak, and very few would chose to not hear their partners wishes, and continue til the deed was completed. from experience, i can tell you that normal men would be on their very best behavior with any new partner..that they would hear what she was saying, wanting, or not wanting....that if she said 'no', he'd hear her, loud and clear....and men in loving and respectful relationships dont need to be told 'no' twice....they know better....and for you to assume otherwise is near to insulting and more than a little off.... dont fish for insults and ridicule when none are present...the responses you garner with your words are the direct result of you offending the sensibilities of others..........i agree with sentiments that have been shared here, and also have strong opinions on what might be suitable punishment for rapists...to me, castration would be just the beginning.... and his victim should wield the knife........
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RHP User
14 years ago
i had reason early this year to call the 'Morecombe Foundation'........although i didnt expect it, it was Denise Morecombe who answered my call. i can honestly say that I have never heard a voice like hers. as brave as she and her husband have been, she spoke with the most surreal and haunting tone in her voice....a voice i shall never forget. i wonder how many times her little boy Daniel said 'NO'.......... there also was a girl, who i grew up with...i know her entire family and worked with her brother......she was taken from the side of ipswich road, all that was found was her abandoned car... i wonder how many times Sharon said 'no' i could tell you some personal horror stories....about the word 'no'...about being physically assaulted by people who claim to love you....and about violent and perverted rape............ but i wont. these stories are my own personal nightmare..........but the word 'no'........is the common thread.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Mikeandshell you touched my heartxxx thank you for sharing
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RHP User
14 years ago
hey thanks but wasnt looking for anything...just trying to express myself. my son is the image of Daniel Morecombe, and the same age, so we watched the story unfold right from the first images shown.............it was eerie, they are so alike. the girl in question was a good friend, Sharon......was supposed to have gone away for the weekend with my ex and others....all soccer girls....but never made it. the rest? is just other shit. my share of the crap that some people get dealt but never fully deal with. these things only creep out when i'm frustrated or angered by something.......so i apologize for sharing something best left hidden, its not what i should do here...........but...once u key 'enter' its too damn late, isnt it? ........please dont be humbled, couplesint, not by my words. its just how life goes.
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RHP User
14 years ago
and I do see more than my share of the shit life deals out to people. Daniel Morcombe was a sad tragedy and only a child. What happens to a child can not be compared to a forum site and a hypothetical question. We are not dealing with abduction, murder or violence in any form here at all. That is a whole other topic. l By the way...I am not fishing for anything, just merely making a hypothetical question...what if? Why should you set YOURSELF up then as judge and jury? Castration? This is not a rape situation per se. She did actually consent. Here I was thinking you said the law was the law and was black and white with no shades of grey. Furthermore...nowhere did I mention a permanent relationship. Never assume!
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RHP User
14 years ago
and I have seen my share of the shit life deals out. What happened to Daniel Morcombe was a tragedy. He was only a child and his story has no relevence here at all. I am not talking about violence, abduction and murder...that is a whole different topic. l Castration? Here I was thinking you were talking before about the law being black and white with no shades of grey and now you want to be judge, jury and executioner? No where did I mention this possibly being a permanent relationship either. Never assume.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I'm sure you've all got so much else you'd rather discuss.... I know I have. See you around. Gazza
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RHP User
14 years ago
But who decides where the line should be drawn fiona? Is it the girl who decides that she wants to draw the line because something doesn't feel right or for whatever reason, or is it the guy that decides that the line should be drawn right after he has cum?? Even if you're about to hit the vinegar stroke and she says 'no', you stop. You don't have to like it but you DO have to accept it and any suggestion otherwise is both irresponsible and stupid. S
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RHP User
14 years ago
no assumptions here at all...the topic was about 'no', and i happen to feel strongly about the word and its apparent lack of importance.....do you hold the franchise on hypotheticals? can i or others not also offer up examples and scenarios??..........the relevance was that i am sure these people said 'no' and were ignored, as many of us have been...and did i not make allusions to both people in established relationships and those meeting and playing for the first time? wheres the assumption? did i not cover alternate scenarios? you'd let a convicted rapist free, according to your words....do you understand how heinous a statement that is, when u talk to victims of rape? the perpertrators walk away all but scot free after a couple of years as it is..........but victims have a life sentence.... my own sentence has been 36 years..thats fair in your world? is it possible that you might have an inkling of an understanding of what it might be like, years later to be able to still smell your attackers breath? to wake in the night because you see all the imagery associated with a nightmare that began a lifetime ago? to see this a thousand fucking times a year??....so yea...judge , jury and fucking executioner.....it would be a consummate pleasure....but would hold no solace, no release, and no peace.....and would put me on the same level as this vile, hateful pig of a person..........you began with one scenario, and when we disagreed, you altered the parameters....to manipulate the discussion back to a point that made your argument sound....but it wont ever succeed....your argument is flawed......you say 'no' isnt able to be used, once you pass an invisble line of behaviour....just where is this line? and who determines it? if a woman, meets a guy, feels its ok, agrees to a sexual encounter....but then, at any point in this encounter, decides its not what she really wants, or she's had enough, or she's finished and just wants him off her..........she can say so...say 'no'..... and its he who is 'obligated' to acceed to her wishes.......for him to continue, against her wishes, in spite of her protests, or requests not to....she can absolutely 100% make the claim that shes been assaulted...raped...violated.... or whatever term you wish to use..or she can be as damned shitty about his lack of respect as she likes......but he cant say a bloody thing,even if he believes he is able to or has the 'right' to.....why? because at no point does any person surrender the sovereign right to decide what he or she will allow, or wants, or agrees to, when it comes to any part of their bodies or person.......... her body ....your body....my body...belong to her...to you...to me....respectively. its not about rape, though we took it there to make a point...its about whats 'right'......and its not 'right' or 'fair' or 'respectful' to suggest that there is a point where someone no longer is able to decide what he or she wants or doesnt want for themselves..... not on your bloody nellie...ever. This has been bandied about a bit on the forums lately. No one denies that a woman (and for that matter, a man as well) has the right to say NO! The law is very clear and specific on this as well. However I tend to disagree just a smidgen...(surprise, surprise) I think that there comes a point, when an invisible line is crossed and the right of refusal is gone the above is your original posted topic. tell us where the right of refusal goes? tell us all, the exact moment its gone...so we can all watch for it in our own puny insignificant lives....so we understand fully the point where we lose all volition and freedom of will....so we know when we can no longer refuse another...........
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RHP User
14 years ago
I see the relevance to No!!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts melandshell , I wonder how many times he did say no! That is the sad part as a parent . Leesa
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RHP User
14 years ago
I see the relevance to No!!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts melandshell , I wonder how many times he did say no! That is the sad part as a parent . Leesa
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RHP User
14 years ago
Thankyou for a brutal and honest post Mike and Shel Quote: its not about rape, though we took it there to make a point...its about whats 'right'......and its not 'right' or 'fair' or 'respectful' to suggest that there is a point where someone no longer is able to decide what he or she wants or doesnt want for themselves..... not on your bloody nellie...ever No means No no matter what the scenario is..... My partner and I have recently split however prior to us splitting, we swung with a couple and had a very nice nite...all was well or so we thought. Then my partner and I split- ok thats fine. The couple contacted me gain and asked would we like to get togther again, I replied saying thankyou but no thanks, that my partner and I had split, I was taking some time out to recover from the heartbreak of that etc etc, but thankyou for contacting us and good luck...nice and polite as you do The male in this partnership continually harrassed me since via sms, and email.(which is how we originally contacted each other) ....wanting a 3sum with him and his Mrs, wanting me to come over etc etc. I have repeatedly told him that I didnt want to, that Im just not interested in seeing them again ( it was nothing personal with them, I just didnt want to see them again without my partner) etc etc, but this guy would not take no for a answer...sms me at all times of the nite, emails etc. As I shift work and Im on call, I couldnt turn my phone off but the harassment became so bad I had to report it to the police and they went around and saw him - (my phone carrier was no help in this matter either) I had to change my phone number - which if you've ever had to change your phone number you know how inconvenient it can be and also change email addy I had to change my life and lifestyle (to a degree) because one person could not and would not accept that I said "NO" Funny I bet the word "Yes" was perfectly acceptable to him I understand the Op's argument of black/white/gray shades and the world is full of many gray shades..and I understand the point/issue she is trying to make...but in my world..which is where I have to operate from...No does mean No and from MOST Peoples operating platform, they would agree......because Im sure Yes means Yes when it suits as well
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RHP User
14 years ago
No way !!!! There is always a time to say" no " no matter when ! , if it continues it is breaking the law it is that simple
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RHP User
14 years ago
No way !!!! There is always a time to say" no " no matter when ! , if it continues it is breaking the law it is that simple
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RHP User
14 years ago
No way !!!! There is always a time to say" no " no matter when ! , if it continues it is breaking the law it is that simple
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RHP User
14 years ago
No way !!!! There is always a time to say" no " no matter when ! , if it continues it is breaking the law it is that simple
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RHP User
14 years ago
I've watched this post since its inception and I'm amazed that anyone can hold the views stated by FionaBee I'm so happy and proud there are good people like 'mikeandshel' in the world who have the words and the 'guts' to reply the way you have FionaBee - you have change your scenarios time and again Do you now understand that NO means NO???
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RHP User
14 years ago
I strongly believe that NO or STOP means just that – no exceptions. The action of the other person is to fully immediately and back off (like a meter plus) and just withdraw to allow the NO person to feel comfortable. It does seem very cruel and almost unreasonable for a woman to say NO just as I am shooting semen and having those orgasmic feelings. However NO is just that NO so the guy still needs to withdraw quickly. Probably masturbate instead if not fully turnedoff. I would never carry on an intimate session with a woman who exercised that right. NEVER. Its quite likely (without other reason) that that would end the relationship as well. Guys have rights and choices too. J
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RHP User
14 years ago
I strongly believe that NO or STOP means just that – no exceptions. The action of the other person is to fully immediately and back off (like a meter plus) and just withdraw to allow the NO person to feel comfortable. It does seem very cruel and almost unreasonable for a woman to say NO just as I am shooting semen and having those orgasmic feelings. However NO is just that NO so the guy still needs to withdraw quickly. Probably masturbate instead if not fully turnedoff. I would never carry on an intimate session with a woman who exercised that right. NEVER. Its quite likely (without other reason) that that would end the relationship as well. Guys have rights and choices too. J
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'rcflyer69' Quoting 'sydneyboy3au' In Fiona's hypothetical situation I would say that it is her right, but it isn't 'right' (and in the latter casse using 'right' in the moral sense, since you're trying to fuck someone around... And not in the good way) that I don't think using the term ' "right" in the moral sense ' presents a valid argument. To me, that implies there is a moral obligation to finish what was started. Again, I'd be pissed off if it happened to me, but I will never assume that there's an obligation to have sex. no, that wasn't what I was saying - the moral obligation is not to start anything given that the intention is to do something so she can be an arsehole to the guy. I don't think there is any obligation to begin the sex in the first place, nor that if someone says stop you shouldn't.Now, what I always find interesting is the assumption that "guys cannot be raped" (particularly in the sense of rape as not being able to consent). Someone brought up the intoxication problem - yet I generally assume that if the woman has been drinking, the guy has ALSO been drinking, and is thus ALSO unable to consent. Surely they're both sexually assaulting each other in that case. (though this is going off topic).Fiona - I don't see how you can justify in any case not stopping when someone says no (except in the cases where it is known that someones 'no' means 'yes, yes YES!!').
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sorry Fiona, but seriously... Nothings been babied about as far as anyone saying "No" Maybe you should have titled it, '' Hypothetically would you like to go to jail or not?" Normally topics don't raise one eyebrow of mine let alone two, this one just made me wonder if you were perhaps intoxicated or something when you started it.
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RHP User
14 years ago
..I can't reply with quote..Oh, well.Sydneyboy, I take your point, however that, I think, is a whole 'nother argument.On the second....it's interesting what you can dig up on the interwebs.."Rape is classified as a victim being unable or unwilling to consent to sex. A man can be raped if he is:1) impaired by drugs or alcohol2) under the age of consent (16-18 in most states)3) physically handicapped or limited4) physically forced or coerced by a woman"The article then goes on to say that many men do not proceed with charges due to the stereotype that men cannot be raped.Finally, a general observation of the whole discussion....I disagree with Fiona's point of view, as do, it would seem, most others who have taken the time to post in this particular thread. It would also appear that she has touched a nerve with some. Be that as it may, surely we can agree/disagree without all the vitriol?For the record, that self-same nerve was touched within me....that's all I have to say about that.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I haven't contributed to the forums for some time..but omg .. I cannot believe anyone could possibly think there is any time that NO is irrelevant. Fiona B go and spend time in a Rape Crisis Centre, or with a sexually abused child. You say you are a carer of children, a foster parent/carer... If I was your case worker I would remove them from you in a heart beat. You make the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard... You should hang your head in shame !!!!
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RHP User
14 years ago
"there is no 'line'...........to suggest that there is, is not reasonable. at every point of contact, there is always 'no', and theres no argument that would support otherwise......yes your honour, she said 'no', but i couldnt stop because the 'line' had been crossed.....is not a defence. it doesnt matter if anyone says 'yes' a thousand times....they only need say 'no' once. beginning, middle and absolute end of argument..........tell all those people who have suffered rape, that its their fault...it was too late to say no, because of some invisible line....i'm sure it will bring them some peace. " I am right there with you There is no line any one have a right to say NO any at any time
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RHP User
14 years ago
I say no all the time...but Mrs Palmer and her four daughters allways win me over hehehe Why can't I just say "NO"?
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RHP User
14 years ago
In my opinion.... I'm guessing that you have rape scenario fantasies Fionabee.... Each to their own and I certainly wouldn't be judging anyone for what they like or dislike in the budoir, but that is something that must be discussed and a "safe" word decided upon before proceedings get under way. In that scenario "No"" really doesn't have a standing... only the "safe" word does. If you get off on messing with peoples minds or love to control... good luck in finding someone that's going to be happy about that. You sound like a very confused, attention seeking female. It will get boring and hard work trying to maintain that after time. Rcflyer69.... you are a VERY intelligent man.... Do you have a twin in Bris?
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RHP User
14 years ago
Yes I can see in totally trusted role play situations the is another exception. Makes sense. Still have a word or phrase that could be used like STOP or REALLY STOP.
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RHP User
14 years ago
...still can't reply with quote :-/Why thank you.....unfortunately (or should that be fortunately?) I don't have a twin (at least not a good one...there's an evil twin somewhere around..)
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RHP User
14 years ago
Havent been able to for ages
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RHP User
14 years ago
i was in that situation fiona with an x girlfriend of 1yr and thats exactly what happened so i kept going 3,4 more strokes and i was finished.the sex was no different than anyother time, nothing was out of the ordanary, and i believe all woman are gods and treat them well but this time she said no and i followed through and finished. mind you she was a bit messed up as i worked out in the end.but when your half way through intercorse and she says no and its no differant than any othe sex youv had, and she started it and wanted sex and then 3/4 way through says no. thats not on.now ive re read that it dont sound good on my behalf but i are pleasant respectful to woman and did nothing wrong but 3,4 more strokes.little did i know after we broke up she was a monster and im still living with that as we have a child together that i have been looking for 8yrs as i believe she was not fit to be a mother and now she has another 2 girls and is treating her x the same she did to me 8yrs ago, so she hasnt changed and here i am trying to get to know my son for the past year and he loves me to bit.thats what shes taken away from me. just had to express that
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RHP User
14 years ago
As a victim of rape at the age of 13 - I will always maintain - No means No.This guy (4 years older) came to my home with one of my older family friends, who had to leave. He wanted to kiss me. Me being an impressionable 13 yr old was flattered (as this guy was THE popular guy at school).Here I am thinking a peck on the lips, but he wanted more. I was uncomfortable. I said no. several times, and very forcefully. Ended up battered and bruised. I won't go into any more detail or what happened afterwards.I have never forgiven this person or forgotten, but I haven't let it rule my life. I am now an adventurous and outspoken 39 year old and will always take a stand on the meaning of NO. If my words are not enough - trust me, my actions speak a lot louder.I agree there is a line. But that line is the one that gets crossed against anothers will.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I fail to see the relenece of posting things about Daniel Morcombe on this topic. An abduction and murder of a child has no bearing of sex between two adults that started as consentual. l Sassy-me...I spend plenty of time with sexually abused kids thankyou very much. How is a woman changing her mind for the basic delight in being a bitch just a few minutes away from male orgasm got anything to do with a chid being abused? Re- read the original post. I do beleive that there is an invisible line that gets crossed yes. I certainly never said when that invisible line was drawn did I? ;l Insomnian...no I was stone cold sober but there are women who cry foul when none exists...we all know that. l ZYX712...nope, wrong as well. I have no rape fantasy at all. I have no unfulfilled fantasies and certainly not one towards rape or any form of violence. Where did I mention rape at all? Remember this was supposedly consentual sex right up until the last few minutes before the man acheived orgasm. Really? Confused and attention seeking? After one forum post? Too funny. l Sydneyboy...so now there is a case of when "no" means "yes"? I thought "no" was "no" and the law was black and white no shades of greay and here you are saying "no" can actually mean "yes"? Too confusing surely you jest!
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RHP User
14 years ago
I fail to see that the abduction and death of a child has any relevance whatso ever with two adults who originally consented to sex. Nowhere have I mentioned rape or violence and no I do not have a rape fetish. I have not changed my mind at all but it seems I can any time I like. So accept it if I do. Sassy me I have spent a lot of time with sexually abused children and once again I fail to undertsnad the relevance here. And how dare you sit in judgement of me over a hypothetical situation. Maybe it is you wo should be thinking of shame and not I. If a woman says no just a few scant moments away from the male orgasm just to be a bitch, how can it be rape? It was consentual all the way UNTIL THEN! Just what has that to do with cildren being abused or abducted and murdered? How can one person assume that I am a confused attention seeking woman after a forum post? Just too funny for words. Now Sydneyboy comes up with the saying "Unless it was a case of no meaning yes. How does that work then? So no does not always mean no? But you are all saying it does.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think the technicians need to do a little site maintenance I do appollogise for any multiple postings.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Whatever the language - no means no! All play should be safe, sane but above all, consensual. No is not a negotiable term.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I am allowed to change my mind.....right up to orgasm
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RHP User
14 years ago
No you are allowed to change you mind at any time. (full stop) No means no. Well put by Mistress T You have not mentioned anything about the topic of a safe word. Why are you so provocative and why would you want to mess with men. I think you put it as "head fuck" You give women a bad reputation if this is the sort of shit you carry on with..... Just saying!!!!
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RHP User
14 years ago
as nearly everything you post on the forums does cross that "invisible Line" you are talking about.Most of it has been ludricrous lately and obviously designed to stir the pot....in a bad way..You attack people who do not agree with you.You belittle others who post from the heart who dare share about tragic pasts.Nowhere in your origional post did you mention consensual sex....you only alluded to an "invisible line" and the right of refusalbeing gone..Please do us all a favour and say NO to yourself more often before hitting the "Post your Comment" button
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RHP User
14 years ago
Hi! Thanks for the thought Provoking Subect:) Honestly I feel both parties have equal right of refusal to follow through.preferrably making this decision before they are having sex. What amazes me is why would it get to this stage to begin with...I Connect with Guys, know them well before hand.Through Chat online and after ,speeking on the phone a couple of times to strengthen the understanding of eachother our wants ,needs, At no time is there any misunderstandings as to what's on offer, which is Friendship to start with.When they're what I may require and are ready, willing , able to enjoy me as I certainly will them .We meet as New Friends, chat over a Drink .If and onlyIf there's Chemisty do we move to share an Intimate Massage.... finally if it's what we both want we enjoy Sexual Intimacy. So there's no need to say No., because the guidelines are already known each step of the way. One reason I'd never have random sex ,I'd never know what I was getting nor would they.. Enjoy .Lu :)
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RHP User
14 years ago
.......did I mention violence or child abuse. This topic was born from the idea of what if a woman left it until the last minute to say no. Is it still right? Legally? morally right? As I was mulling this over last night I got to thinking about this. I really have not changed my post from an invisible line very much at all, inspite of all in sundry saying I have changed the scenario. The same people who are defending the rights of a woman to change her mind I might add. I did ellaborate on further to ask "what if the man was scant minutes away from orgasm" yes and this is meant to determine if there was that line that may have been crossed. No where did I suggest that these are the games I play. No where did I mention children. Nowhere did I mention violence AT ANY TIME. Those thoughts did not even enter my head. Think about this folks....child abuse and violence against women entered your thoughts.......what does that say about what your mind automatically leaps to? l ll For a bunch of so called liberal people...you are all very quick to judge others, very quick to point the finger and assume the worst....and about things I never mentioned or would even think of. l Chev11 I am so very sorry you had to experience that. I dont think anyone should be the victim of sexual abuse, certainly not a child and this topic is not meant to be about that....at all. l XYZ712...dont assume that I play those games....but alot do. It is not me giving women a bad name lovey. There is no mention of a "safe" word as I am not talking about BDSM here. l As for the letter of the law being black and white. Think about Judge made law and how it comes about. It only takes one judge to be influenced and a new law is made when s/he passes down a sentence. Precedence is then set
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RHP User
14 years ago
you mention 'no' and trivialise it. you made it into something worthless, by suggesting that people use 'no' as some nasty game. they dont. normal respectful, responsible people dont throw 'no' around to be nasty, to be a 'head fuck' or to be a 'bitch'......and even if they do.............no is no. they get what they want, because thats what the word means.........it means 'enough' or 'stop' or 'its over'...........you post these topics... with a little laugh in them, knowing full well that what you are doing is stirring the pot. its not smart, intelligent or amusing when you do this. and its not reasonable when you do so, knowing full well that you will elicit a passionate response. when we disagree with you, you go on the attack, and really do get very nasty and very insulting. and you drag issues from other forum threads into the discussion, just to be that little more hurtful. and then....when anyone 'burrs up'....you invariably claim its a personal attack, and that you were 'defending yourself' ......we've seen this from you time and time again... . your original post was nothing like what you changed it to....and its your original post we are all responding to. This has been bandied about a bit on the forums lately. No one denies that a woman (and for that matter, a man as well) has the right to say NO! The law is very clear and specific on this as well. However I tend to disagree just a smidgen...(surprise, surprise) I think that there comes a point, when an invisible line is crossed and the right of refusal is gone. this is incendiary........its set deliberately to spark a fire......... and it succeeded very well...you should be proud of that.we believe its a direct response to jenstas topic about men not knowing how to woo a lady. in this, you are again transparent. you do this over and over....post a topic thats diametrically opposed to someone elses.....someones that you didnt agree with and were frustrated by. our argument is that we dont see that there could ever be an imaginary or invisible line where someone loses the 'right' to say 'no'.....we feel this right is 'immutable'...why? because past experiences tell us so...and the law backs us up, and guess what? so do the social mores of the times we live in..........these are the 'safest' days any of us has lived in...why? because our 'rights' have never before been protected like they are in todays world. you offered up alternate scenarios, and changed the content of your original supposition, to include that a woman may say 'no' deliberately, just to be a bitch, or to be a head fuck....do you see this as a regular thing? do women do this? not in my experience...which is fairly comprehensive, even using this site as a bench mark...women are, in the main, very careful and caring in the bedroom, and it would be a hateful and nasty piece of work that said 'no' deliberately , just to upset and disappoint............how do you think of these things? where in your experience have you seen this? it doesnt happen, not with normal every day people. most of us have an agenda that is about good, healthy and rewarding interactions with others, whether they be social or sexual....most want a happy outcome...dont you? if, perchance, a woman...my wife even...said 'no' to me...there is no question other than perhaps 'are u sure?' that i could ask....its no big deal....unless i was the kind of guy, who was so wrapped up in my own self, that i could continue blindly and arrogantly without any proper regard for my partner.....oh gee....sounds like rape to me? but hey...in your scenario...the womans lost the right to say no...so he has the green light to continue as he pleases...with scant regard to her wishes....because some make believe line was crossed?? if he's mere seconds from ejaculation...it doesnt matter, thats certainly not a reason or justification to continue....is it? it doesnt matter what her motives are...shes said no, and thats all that matters...... the idea that 'no' can be tossed around so freely is disturbing........its quite possibly the single most important word in our language...........it sets boundaries, it defines behaviors, it refutes, rejects and annuls........it one of the first words our children learn..........which is why i mentioned daniel morecombe. i wondered out loud, how many times he said "no", which is why i mentioned my good friend Sharon......i wondered how many times she said "no"......i wonder how many times their parents said or thought "no"...........i understand that you didnt mention anything sinister in your original post...but the idea that one has no 'right' to say no............is perhaps the single most disturbing and sinister concept offered up in this discussion...we all have the right to say 'no' whenever we choose, for whatever reason we can find...if its what we want...or dont want, it really doesnt matter, and isnt worthy of an argument.......no will always be no...if he doesnt like it? ........... well thats really just too bad.... your response to one persons story of rape....(she said no i guess) showed a lack of regard for another woman...which is surprising, disappointing and revealing...all at the same time........rape is a crime of violence........and rape does not occur without one saying, screaming and even crying the word "no' ..............which again is the relevence...the word 'no' is the common link....the common theme....whether it be said to be nasty, to be a head fuck or as a response to an unwanted sexual advance or attack, is immaterial...no is no is no is no.............in any language............
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