M63
The problem with Massed Evil
February 04 2013
Comments
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RHP User
13 years ago
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RHP User
13 years ago
What did you watch on the telly before going to sleep? xFunlovingx
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RHP User
13 years ago
I cannot wait for neptune_drift's response to this.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Evil can be accomplished through inaction due to good people not acting. Sci-fi doesn't have much to do with evil as such unless you are talking about adolescent sci-fi most good sci-fi deals with the human condition and how we cope with massive technological change or societal advancement. Evil as a concept is something invented by humans to describe human behaviour as it relates to human interactions that end with outcomes that are adverse to human living. Are earthquakes evil? Is the Bomb evil? Is carbon pollution evil? Mike
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'ruby_blossum' What did you have to eat before you went to bed LRE ? Quoting 'xFunlovingx' What did you watch on the telly before going to sleep? xFunlovingx Quoting me What were you smoking before you went to bed, LRE? ...and do you have enough for everyone?
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RHP User
13 years ago
I can hardly remember my dreams in the morning. ~sigh~There was a really interesting show on a little while ago called which was all about what happens to people who are in a mob and how it changes their behaviour from normal people to hooligans with little care about their actions. The conclusion the show tried to portray was that when people are anonymous their morals and ability for compassionate decision making reduces. Basically there was a random guy out and about with the friends who were in on the show mixed with actors. The TV audience could then vote to see if something good or bad happened to the guy. Pretty much without fail the audience chose something bad and these choices were kept on being presented to the audience until for the random guy it looked like it ended in tears (was staged for the audience with someone that looked like the random). Look at any saturday night in town and a village idiot by himself may be too scared to decide to pick a fight with someone one on one but when you have all the idiots in the village in a group then they start acting tough and.....
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RHP User
13 years ago
But your assurances are built on a false premise. Evil is not necessarily chaotic. Anarchy and evil are not synonymous.What is evil? A morally reprehensible impulse or action. Something offensive. Pernicious behaviours or systems.The capacity to organise, focus and execute a plan is is distinct from any 'evilness' of an individual or group. Indeed, because "evil intentions" are often much more simplistic than benevolent causes and don't have internal contradictions, they may be easier to rally around.Be afraid. Very afraid.
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RHP User
13 years ago
...and, Jeez, didn't she 'mass' it on.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'll just stay here and play with my boobies ... I'm confused .....
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RHP User
13 years ago
@miketheduc I'm on board with your third paragraph. Though it's a harder thing to pin down than that. I've just had a broad stab at it as I hate very long posts ~laughs~@araps We see that here eh? The old hiding behind anonymity in the corner trick.. So Trolls are evil.. ~laughs~@mesolongi Ven diagrams man. Saying evil is chaotic is not the same as saying everything chaotic is evil. Assume chaotic is a good simile for the unexpected. Good behaviour is what we expect from respectable people, so evil behaviour can be described as chaotic?@EveryoneElse I ate noodle Box for dinner. Played my guitar and flirted with freogirl before bed time. She says I'm now her brother. Is that worse than the "lets be friends" line? I'm waiting for Neptune_drift too. ~laughs~
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RHP User
13 years ago
How do we define evil?There was a time when slavery was not considered evil,was socially acceptable to most.In fifty years from now I think there will be a number of common practises that will be considered evil.The farming nd killing of animls being one that I can think of. Hiler,Pol Pot,these are people who represent the extremes of evil but there is evil thriving all around us.The way we treat refugees,children in care,the destruction of the planet, people starving and dying in Africa,child slavery,sexual slavery,we are all complicit in these every day '' evil'' acts because we stand by and do nothing. If only it was all as simple as the idea that the forces of good will prevail over the forces of evil.But the reality is,that what one person views as evil another considers to be normal behaviour and assisting them with their quality of life. An interesting ,thought provoking post LRE.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I can be an good or evil ....
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RHP User
13 years ago
Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Ok.. intermission..~smiles~
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madotara69
13 years ago
A recent documentary using science with observation, and a computer that can find an answer for it's own questions, have come to only one law for universal behavior. Absolute chaos, it appears we are no more than a pimple on an elephants bum for the quiet time here on Earth. We will become to the law eventually and return to a singularity.What they did not account for, is that Luke Skywalker has just begun to use the force, and HandSolo has his back.
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RHP User
13 years ago
... and I'm definitely not eating Noodle Box for dinner!!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
Freya managed to articulate what bothered me but for which I couldn't find the words, namely, in your description, LRE, evil is some kind of force, power or spirit. Almost a thing, or an element. But in my world view, there isn't a good spirit and a bad spirit. In my view, there are just collections of atoms (people) who for reasons of experience (nurture) and chemistry (nature) react to stimulus in fairly predictable ways. Also, I didn't make a mistake. I said, evil is not necessarily chaotic. I'd go further and say it often isn't chaotic. However you made the 'if and only if' proposition that evil "is by definition chaotic", which I contest. I contest it on the grounds that if you could ascribe an attribute like "chaotic" to evil, I don't think evil necessarily has such a personality trait (the fairy-tale devil himself wasn't), and I don't believe there is an entity of evil to which you can assign a personality. But, I love a good venn diagram. I am leaning towards Jensman - pass me whatever it is you're smoking ;) ps Brother much worse than friend. Now you get to hear all the sordid bits, but aren't supposed to bat off to them. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'paintme' I'll just stay here and play with my boobies ... I'm confused ..... I've stopped laughing now... sort of
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RHP User
13 years ago
Shhhh...ladies, there's a lot of deep thinkers out there and this isn't really all that hard to figure out?Pretend I'm consummate evil destined on global destruction...too easy.Now ladies, your boobies are the antithesis of consummate evil and could be the only thing that can save the world from hopeless darkness and misery.*flops back laughing almost hysterically* Smite me, smite me...save the world. Note to self: Dream big dreams...and never confess to what's in that pipe.
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RHP User
13 years ago
That scenario so sounds like a scene from a James Bond film..~smiles~
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RHP User
13 years ago
But you don't know what dish I ordered dear....
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RHP User
13 years ago
Or is it that the fight against evil, percieved or otherwise, is more often than not fought by the smaller force?Taking a holistic overview that evil seeks to either control or destroy imo, it should in the long run consume itself as the parts within the whole strive to live up / down to their potential / limitation. I hope that makes sense. Intiguining post LRE, thanks. PS: Is funny, my dreams last night were very similar but on an Earthly plane and I was not alone as our small group was picked off one by one by the evil forces that fought to control us. :-)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'DaMrsPeachyPear' Is massed evil really the problem?Or is it that the fight against evil, percieved or otherwise, is more often than not fought by the smaller force? While the majority live in blissful ignorance.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'paintme'Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. One of the best quotes ever.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I don't think the fear to suffering path, while very sound, is evil. Evil is cold and hard. Probably not scared at all. But very focused on suffering. On someone else's suffering.
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RHP User
13 years ago
You mention attacking and defending in the dream. Some evil force is threatening to destroy everything. Moving, transitioning from one state to the next, what a great dream! Perhaps you've had some recent changes that are making you feel threatened in your sense of self? I used to have a recurring dream in times of stress and change in my life. I'd be walking through a new, very clean house that I had just bought with a friend and my sister. I'd wander off up some stairs by myself and open an odd looking door, through the door was an old lounge/sewing room that was dirty, grey and dusty. All the furniture was broken and moldy, the air was hazy with the dust and standing at the threshhold of the room would fill me with such a sense of dread that I could not take a step into that room. I would be frozen in complete and utter terror. In terms of evil itself, many evil "forces" are very organised. Many evil dictatorship regimes around the world are organised around fear and distrust. Social ties (Grattnover?) are an important element in allowing evil to reign. Strong ties are the family/close friendship bonds but weak ties are the loose social ties, like the checkout chick at the supermarket, or your bus driver, a friend of a friend who could get you an interview at the company you want to work for. If anyone could be a spy for the government, you stand to lose a lot by trusting those weak social ties, therefore you stick only to your trusted strong ties. The entire community is suspicious of each other, there is less free expression and evil is allowed to perpetuate. Orwell's 1984 is a fantastic description of this, placing trust in weak ties only to have them rat you out (literally LOL).
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RHP User
13 years ago
can be evil.. Hate deception anger racism Think on the german people who ignored or participated in the holocaust Or the adults forcing children into war as child soldiers in africa.. Mike
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RHP User
13 years ago
The evil is in the not recognisising that one is going down that path ...
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RHP User
13 years ago
Where the antagonist is a galaxy swallowing evil. Methinks the best question for LRE is "what the hell did you read before bed?!?" I know it always plays strongly on my dreams, which is why I usually have 3 or 4 books on the go at once :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
+1 to paintme for the quote........................................ and +10 to paintme for the solution she offered early in the discussion ;)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Think I'll just keep overturning rocks until I find Paintme's boobies. Then I'll play with 'em.
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RHP User
13 years ago
To the OP - you didn't happen to be reading The Neutronium Alchemist by Peter Hamilton? Good book - infinite power and potential accidentially falls into the hands of an evil sociopath.......could imagine your dreams could stem from such a book...Danny
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RHP User
13 years ago
..Mistake - I meant the Reality Dysfunction.........
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RHP User
13 years ago
has many protagonists such as machine intelligences, Alien races or Von neuman self replicators. Due to the intrinsic anthropocentric purposes of authors ie; sell lots of books, this is how it has to be... Explorations on evil and self can be read in the court documents of murderers, child predators or wife beaters... Or you could read Jean Paul Sartre, Maquis De Sade, St Thomas Aquinas, or listen to Alan Jones an inherently nasty piece of excrement. Mike
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madotara69
13 years ago
LRE, maybe the nothing was hot on your trail, as people were losing their feelings for hope and compassion, the ability to dream, lost for wishes. You only had to call out her name.
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RHP User
13 years ago
... true, I don't know what dish you ordered but I still ain't 'aving it!! And Peachy I'm with you "ignorance is bliss" ;-) Think I might join paintme under the covers :-)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'Manly_McHardon' Think I'll just keep overturning rocks until I find Paintme's boobies. Then I'll play with 'em. Seriously, on topic ....um... let me play with my boobies while I think ...I think that evil is force that only exists if it is fed. We can choose to feed it or not. If we don't feed it, it will eventually either get bored and walk away or digest itself. I like to think that if we feed to goodness in our lives then then the evil has no place to go. Now you can all share my rock and play with my boobies ...
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RHP User
13 years ago
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'paintme' Quoting 'Manly_McHardon' Think I'll just keep overturning rocks until I find Paintme's boobies. Then I'll play with 'em. Seriously, on topic ....um... let me play with my boobies while I think ...I think that evil is force that only exists if it is fed. We can choose to feed it or not. If we don't feed it, it will eventually either get bored and walk away or digest itself. I like to think that if we feed to goodness in our lives then then the evil has no place to go. Now you can all share my rock and play with my boobies ... At the base of that wall, you'll find a rock that has no earthly business in a Maine hayfield. Piece of black, volcanic glass. There's something buried under it I want you to have..........Paintme's Boobies!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
I was doing fine as Dr. Evil...they even seemed to like it. Quoting 'LittleRedEngine' That scenario so sounds like a scene from a James Bond film..When introduced them to Mini-Me, they laughed...that really hurt my feelings.
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RHP User
13 years ago
But that was not the point of the post. Which was..When the orders of evil get too large, they collapse in on them selves. For somthing to be very large, it has to be very very organized and co-operative to survive. Evil generally is not either of these things. Well not for very long anyway.So when evil organizations get to big, they tend to splinter and implode.@Otori, matadora, Philosopherpoet.. I'm going to go away and think about your posts. But I was not reading before bed. Before bed I go to the chat room and look at boobies ~grins~
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madotara69
13 years ago
2,2- 3,4.. 3,2- 3,4 backLast night in my dreams I was some sort of super universal entity. A sort of ethereal being moving though time and space. The problem was, I was in a fighting retreat withe a massive Collected Evil.As I moved from one planetary system to another, trying to defend my self, The system I'd been in ceased to exist. Destroyed. Exterminated. In the end there was no Universe left for the Evil Collective to try to capture or I to defend.chorus So who was I really helping?When I woke up it suddenly came to me that, For Evil to be massed in this way, it would need to be able to co-operate internally. Of course the bigger anything becomes, the more it needs to be able to co-operate with it's self in order to continue to exist. Many very large corporations struggle with this on a daily basis.down dynamics, around twiceleed breakGiven that by definition, Evil is chaotic, manipulative and selfish, it's never going to be very big. Maybe Evil can be National? But I'm guessing that's about it limit. Possibly the Nazis were a good example of this. But the circumstances of the treaty of Versailles, the cause of the rise of the Nazis, helped this along.chorusBut Evil can not be universal. Evil will always tend towards a singularity. Or the few people driving it on each occasion. So don't be scared people, the chaos of evil will always tend to consume it. But a lot of Sci-Fi plots don't work so well any more..~smiles~leed out. hehe
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RHP User
13 years ago
Evil comes from inside of us but also will be planted through others in us. Evil looks strong when it can feed but is weak when it has noting to feed on. However, how it portrays it self to us most powerful and sounds all mighty but only because we are scared..... initially…..then when we see it’s weakness and falsehood we turn our back and laugh in its face. Sad for some they will never see it and evil will destroy them……because evil makes the person unhappy.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'keepingkarma' ... true, I don't know what dish you ordered but I still ain't 'aving it!! And Peachy I'm with you "ignorance is bliss" ;-) Think I might join paintme under the covers :-) My brain hurts from reading the OP, sorry LRE, I did read it 3 times though :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
" The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" ...that was Edward Bourke I believe? We can all be apathetic to the happenings of the world...although when it gets closer to home... We will "Choose our (your) battles" .... Sun Tzu (Art of War is actually a very good book...many strategies that can be adapted to real life not just war). Anyway going to put my book of quotes away for now....just thought they were relevant to some of the posts. Cheers
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RHP User
13 years ago
I ate the mushrooms in the top paddock. Organic they were, good for me they were not- Posted from rhpmobile
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madotara69
13 years ago
Quoting 'LittleRedEngine' But that was not the point of the post. Which was..When the orders of evil get too large, they collapse in on them selves. For somthing to be very large, it has to be very very organized and co-operative to survive. Evil generally is not either of these things. Well not for very long anyway.So when evil organizations get to big, they tend to splinter and implode.@Otori, matadora, Philosopherpoet.. I'm going to go away and think about your posts. But I was not reading before bed. Before bed I go to the chat room and look at boobies ~grins~ I forget, if it isn't Sesame Street, then it is the movie The Never Ending Story. Three kids same movie, watched it again as your post came to discussion. The story for the movie has similarities. I just assume that if i have watched it countless times, everyone must have watched it at least once.As well your post has reminded me of a song. The Force, from The Allan Parsons Project.It is not so much intended for you to go off thinking, it is what you have said that has had me off thinking. It is not everyday a question as such is put for thought.It is a time to listen to an old favorite from Pink Floyd... Set the controls to the heart of the sun, while looking at boobies in the chat rooms, grinning ear to ear.Mado
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RHP User
13 years ago
~laughs~I like it..
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RHP User
13 years ago
Thats what I meant when I said it evil digests itself. Evil organisations are filled with all sorts of evil people because evil becomes normal behaviour. Greed, lying, cheating and stealing is evil's modus operandi. No one has been able to sustain leadership of that kind of operation for too long. Too complicated.
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GezWouldGo
13 years ago
What sorta coal have you been shovelling into that boiler ?
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'm confused too and looking for a rock... I consider myself to be quite a bright person, but when it comes to all things Sci-Fi and fantasy adventure I am hopeless, I still don't understand Star Wars at all... and Lord of the rings, Oh lord give me strength... I would rather poke my eyes out with knitting needles than watch these ever again... and yes LRE, when's the next acid party? The last time I dropped that shit I almost got arrested for stealing river rocks from a garden display at a large corporate office in dandenong...( to paint into pet rocks of course.) This was right after dancing under the sprinklers in said garden... So I can completely understand these vivid dreams if you are under the influence of acid or disco biscuits or whatever
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RHP User
13 years ago
Now we know, the op was on mind altering boobies at the time. Nuff said ... ;-) KK xx
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'll share my rock with you, then you can paint me!!!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
it has to be a nice smooth rock though! My god I haven't thought about that night in years, me dripping with water (it was about 40 degrees) someone must have spotted my friend and I dancing and running around under the sprinklers and called security, by the time they arrived I had three rocks and was hunting for more, he tried to get me to put them down... I was then begging him to let me take the rocks because I had big plans for them, 'look you guys have heaps of them, you won't miss a few!' I ended up dumping the rocks and stupidly told him 'I'll be back!!!' Do you think he realised we were high as kites??
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'paintme' I'll share my rock with you, then you can paint me!!!! ...let's leave the rock out of the equation. You can hide under me and I can play with your boobies. It's win-win!
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RHP User
13 years ago
I have no idea what evil is or how it functions actually. But I'm a fan of what it is not. soooooooo .....
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madotara69
13 years ago
Quoting 'paintme' I have no idea what evil is or how it functions actually. But I'm a fan of what it is not. soooooooo ..... Ok.... I will be quiet now
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RHP User
13 years ago
... nuts were evil. Oh boy am I in trouble! KK xx
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'm so disappointed you've revealed yourself as not a D&D nerd.D&D has an alignment system with a matrix of 9 alignments. This is from the Wikipedia entry:"In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, Alignment is a categorization of the ethical (Law/Chaos axis) and moral (Good/Evil axis) perspective of people, creatures and societies."The nine alignments can be represented in a grid, as follows:Lawful GoodNeutral GoodChaotic GoodLawful NeutralNeutralChaotic NeutralLawful EvilNeutral EvilChaotic EvilI'll let the wisdom of nerds and their fantasy roleplaying game speak for me, particularly in regards to Lawful Evil ("Boba Fett of Star Wars, and X-Men's Magneto are cited examples of Lawful Evil characters in (3.5e).") However, I think Otori's spot on with the reference to 1984, and something others have touched on - evil can be systemic, in which case it's far more capable of self-sustenance (vampires maintaining a colony of humans as a 'farm'. Freya's analogy of human farming practices?)Then again, you kind of seem to be invoking some general entropic principle, which applies to good as well as evil. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" type thing.Again then again, the latest theories seem to suggest the universe is speeding up, which throws that whole nature of entropy into question.Uhhh, I mean...BOOBIES!
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RHP User
13 years ago
you have never seen or experienced evil paint me,then you are a fortunate woman indeed.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'Freya13' If you have never seen or experienced evil paint me,then you are a fortunate woman indeed. I've seen, heard and experienced so many forms of individual evilness in my time and ignorance is an inherent evil that I'm glad for the people who can experience it.
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madotara69
13 years ago
you are a musician which suggests you visualize thoughts with a creative, imaginative, artistic and bring them to life with emotions, and feelings, You can write as song, maybe paintme hehe little cutie. Fall head over heels in love for passion with the lady that you can dream her to be amazing or an octopus, and, ahh there it is ~Grin~ Fancy that being right next to the Q that I could never find easily.Is it the left side of brain,somewhere... Creative,Visual,and give Dynamics using feelings with Emotion.(Artistic types,dreamers) The right side of the cranium and actually more frontal...logistical, logical, logistic and even logist. Using tools, math science, fact. forming an educated guess (more than likely correct.) like some songs, and have their favorites for a dance. with the person compatable to higher percentages for lasting love.Some feel and believe they are and will continue to become good lovers, Some believe they know and they are, and every one meets to love and dance in the middle.The evil continuing to gather speed, though it will trip over its own foot.Did the Police create the criminal, so it could become a powerful police force. Create lots of laws to surely show the power it has to apprehend it's criminals, and have the majority seek submissively under its all inspiring power. It is a thing in this country. Our police force was formed by empowering the best behaved criminals, to become the worst behaved police force. Ned Kelly and gang was the prevailing spirit for the evil to become the forgotten power it needed to have, to want and be the Man that Shot Ned Kelly, the man he made the criminal, became the force. The best behaved criminal became the dog, and would have felt nervously safe to put himself in the safety of the docs. Today the Police have a place of informed teams in area control commands, And criminals, are trying to root their girlfriends at the beach. A good police officer in this country today, Is a loyal man protecting people just like Ned Kelly.It all comes around. There is always going to be the goodies, and the baddies. Then we get Batman,BruceWayne. Superman, Clark Kent. Miss SuperFox, ( the dissapearing act ) she calls it, problems solved for the values with the people. That all seem to love music, and chocolate, and rooting, and boobies, and strap ons.
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