M51
The Elephant in the Room.
June 18 2011
Comments
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RHP User
15 years ago
My first thought was ... you have got to be kidding yourself if you think that your kid(s) don't swear at school! I remember taking my daughter her lunch to her school when she was in Prep...as I was walking up behind her she let fly with the most colourful language that I have heard in a long time! She (at that time) was the kind of kid that butter wouldn't melt in her mouth...so innocent and happy go lucky! When she turned around and saw me standing there, you could see she was horrified...I had to turn around and look the other way as I was laughing my head off! Little Miss Innocent was caught out! Now at the age of 19...she does swear like a trooper when in company with her friends in private ... BUT ... If any of her friends swear out in public and there are kids or elderly people around...she will tell her friends off good and proper! She is the first one to help old people on and off a bus/train...she is the first to help the mother with her pram too! The disappointing part is the weird looks she gets from adults around your age as she is helping because she has tattoos and has quite a few piercings on her face! Stop being so judgemental! > God forbid if your son does any sport...have you heard the Coaches when the game is close or their team is doing a bad job? I suggest if you don't like them to hear any swearing or be around it...just wrap them up in cotton wool...stick them in a bubble and home school them! It happens...get over it! xFunlovingx
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RHP User
15 years ago
People swear more now than say 20 years ago. It is true but then we do an aweful lot more of certain things than we did 20 years ago. We eat more junk food, we watch more tv, spend more on technology. Swearing is not acceptable to many but there are a large number of kids that do not have thier speech corrected. One only has to walk into the nearest school yard during recess or lunch and listen to the kids. I have been known to correct the speech of some of the local street thugs at the local skatepark. I dont think they were happy about it though. I taught my kids that there is "paddock" language and it is used in the paddock... You need only to listen to the songs that the kids listen to, the movies that they watch, the computer games they play to know that no matter what you wish as a parent, the standards of our speech have slipped.
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RHP User
15 years ago
As much as I hate to see swearing on t-shirts...... I have to say that as a proponent of free speech I can't honestly raise an objection to them. I would prefer to see them censored for the sake of the kids. It's the same with some of the adults swearing. I have sat on public transport listening to conversations where every second word used is the "f" word until it becomes meaningless and ineffective. Moving away is the only option or you lose the will to live. Evelyn Beatrice Hall in her biography of Voltaire wrote " I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."I say "Not if that includes swearing"
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RHP User
15 years ago
I've often wondered about the downfall of civilisations and how a once mighty empire might suddenly topple in the space of a few decades.How much does a lifestyle of largesse and liberalism contribute, along with poor political leadership and external conflict, to the ultimate downfall?Are we seeing the downfall of Western civilisation?Did the Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Aztec's and Mayan's experience a similar decay of civilisation?I simply do not know. .Am I old fashioned in agreeing with you Andy?I'd like to think not.I don't see why if a person can be arrested for swearing at a Police Officer, why can't they be arrested for wearing a T-shirt like you've described?I find it offensive and I simply don't understand why someone would choose to wear something like that. Being in an area predominately populated by young children I find it exceptionally disturbing. The current lack of respect of others and selfishness shown by an increasingly large number of people has me frightened of the future.It may be a case of a few spoiling it for the masses but personal observations, coupled with media reports, have shown me that it's a growing trend.As Fiona said (and maybe it's a country thing), I too was taught there is "paddock talk" and "polite talk". Paddock talk is for when you're with your mates and others you know to be comfortable with blue language. Polite talk is for any other situation.The occasional slip is bound to happen (especially where pain is concerned) and as long as you're apologetic about it it's no harm no foul. I grew up in the 80's and 90's and any foul language or nudie scenes on TV were relegated to an "AO" classification and shown after 9:30pm. Nowadays you can see full frontal female nudity on the midday movie as well as hear shit and fuck at any time of the day. Have the classification guidelines changed so much in 10 to 20 years? Do the censors believe we as a society are more accepting of such material and therefore being subjected to it at a younger age is more acceptable?Which comes first? Exposure through acceptance, or acceptance through exposure? .In a world full of litigation, where we are no longer responsible for our own actions (there's always someone else to blame right?), are the censors asking too much of us to monitor what our children watch and listen to?I mean half of the modern pop music and film clips would simply not have been allowed to air when I was growing up..Liberalism and free speech are great arguments (and are necessary for a free, democratic society) but there are times and places for free speech that are respectful of others.As a parent of a 2yo Son I wonder how I'm going to raise him to be a polite and respectful human being in this mad, mad world. I believe everyone, not only the parents, has a responsibility to model proper civilised behaviour and it really disappoints me to see/hear other parents swear freely in front of their young children, or even worse at their children. .What can we do though? I know from personal experience (after asking two twenty somethings to tone down their language on a public bus with a young child nearby) that to object risks an adverse reaction, from being told to "Fuck of and mind your own business" to at worst being violently physically attacked (thankfully I only copped verbal abuse).How can someone justify killing someone else for asking them to be respectful of others? It's been reported that if you want someone to come to your aid in an emergency you're better of yelling "Fire, fire" than calling for the police. People are so scared of being attacked themselves if they try to help someone that they'd leave someone to die. Granted that this report came from the USA but already signs of such behaviour is seeping into our own backyard..Freedom of speech is a liberty that has been hard fought for by many before us. Unfortunately some now hide behind it and use it as an argument to justify their offensive or abusive behaviour.I believe some form of censorship is necessary in the modern world and it dances a very fine line with freedom of speech, sometimes taking things too far and at other times not far enough.I just wonder whether we as a society are going to realise when which is which..Cheers..RustySorry Andy. More questions than answers I know but I feel better for my rant.
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RHP User
15 years ago
Having spent 20 years in the military I swear "like a trooper" but I do not swear around children or women. Call me old school but I cringe when people swear so openly, verbal or printed.
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RHP User
15 years ago
it wasnt that long ago that "bloody" and "shit" were considered 'wash your mouth out with soap' words...yet nowadays most dont even regard them as swear-words.I sometimes swear in front of my child. He is 14...and swears when he is with his friends...BUT....he also knows there are places where that kind of language WILL NOT be toleratedas do I.If we dont allow these words...people dont learn how to filter...to adapt their behaviour for different situations...I wouldnt talk to the lady at the deli the same way i talk to my mates down at the pub.I would much rather hear a convo with a few f-words...than hear a convo full of "um...like".JMO...BJxxx
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RHP User
15 years ago
A few years back before coming here, I was on the school board...and elected position and my one great run at politics, however we set the policies for our self-determining schools including a dress code as there were no uniforms required. The policy was quite liberal however did include wearing clothing the could be deemed as offensive to others and broadly....would have included this type of T-shirt and more so as it was a small school district of only 300 or so kids in grades K-12. | We had one young man that repeatedly and clearly violated the code, not only the the use of the language on his shirts but also the graphics. Two warning letters were sent home including one registered guaranteeing the receipt by the parents and ultimately this student was suspended. | Within a matter of about a week, we were met by the ACLU lawyer and the parents...the premise being that our policy was unfair and had violated the child's civil rights a/c freedom of speech and expression. There was also a rather tidy monetary amount attached to compensate for the undue "pain and suffering" that had been inflicted on this little lamb. Without being too critical...the parents were a piece of work in themselves, the acorn and the oak tree sort of thing. | I brought forward our position in response that the policy was fair and had been administerd when needed with equality...and in fact took the contrarian position. This action had not violated the civil rights of the other 299 students that were similarly not allowed to wear that type of clothing and....may in fact may have actually violated the rights of other that did not want to be exposed to that neither individually or on behalf of the majority of the community that agreed. Short form....we won and the child returned to school in more acceptable attire. | That said...I also believe that a slight case of "just get over it" might be in order. The world is a very diverse place and perhaps the most debilitating thing we can do is deprive our children or others of observing this for themselves and if we have put the proper foundations in place...will make their own decisions. Vocabulary or words on T-shirts alone will not really alter this course and a word that comes to mind that is part of the new urban dictionary is "gay". It definitely does not have the same meaning or connotation as it did when I was young. | I see a culture of homogenius kids every day being dropped off at their very expensive private schools to be educated in an insular environment devoid of cultural diversity or an awareness that not all people are from the same class or be blessed with the same station in life since birth. Choices...we all need to have them and we all need to develop in such a manner as to be able to define the balance for ourselves. | Here is an analogy...both drugs and the ownership of concealed firearms are illegal. Do you believe that the doctrines of law prevent anyone from being exposed to them nearly every day as you walk down the streets of any and every CBD in Australia? | You really can't legislate, dictate or control what is ulitmately part of modern society. I am sure the Dalai Lama's Little Book of Wisdom does not make any reference to becoming a member of RHP nor a presence in an online community such as this. It is not always what tools or skills we have on hand... | ...it is simply more how we use them.
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RHP User
15 years ago
hmmmm..... and in what context do you not like it i ask... considering the word can be used as a verb, adjective, adverb, noun and so on...
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RHP User
15 years ago
It's a good thing said guy had enough friends because he wasn't going to make too many more. So in that regard I guess the T shirt was effective. Rusty, I reckon the Roman gladiatorial "entertainment" was a worse degeneration than our growing tolerance for swearing. While some reality TV comes close at least people don't murder each other. My potty mouth might get me into trouble one day but I do try to be more careful than some of the people we're talking about in public. One good thing about the RHP forums - no children! Woohoo. Swear it up, folks. haha.
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RHP User
15 years ago
I don't find the swearing ones offensive at all on ADULTS! However I did go to Ballarat last weekend for my son's basketball tournament and absolutely cringed when I saw a t-shirt on a 9 year old boy that had the McDonalds M on it and then it had the word Marijuana written on it! I gave his parents the greasiest look and told them that a t-shirt like that for a 9 year old was very inappropriate! I find that more offensive than any t-shirt and ADULT could wear! xFunlovingx
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RHP User
15 years ago
we raised a forum topic recently after being subjected to the disgusting language from a pair of young women on a council bus that was primarliy in service to cater for school children (primary age no less). these 'women' were spraying all sorts of expletives, loud enough for all to hear. and hear they did! with horror on their little faces.......... but guess what? we were berated for suggesting it was both improper and uncalled for.........by members of RHP.....and its just no good enough. these people swear, because we let them. this guy wore his tshirt, because we let him..........and.... for the record...there is NO "freedom of speech" here in Australia.........we have no Bill of Rights...the only thing we actually have is the freedom of "expression", but according to the highest court of the land....this 'expression' has to only be about matters of politics....all of our states and territories have laws to protect us from what they deem to be 'obscene'.....this includes language; both printed and spoken......if its in a public context and even one person is offended (actually none, because the police can make their own complaint here) an offence has been committed. but thats all subjective and up to the individuals involved or exposed......its up to us as "adults" to censor each other if its appropriate, and to perhaps set much better standards and examples for our young ones, for all they do is copy us, and its not until they are in their early teens thats they really make their own choices about how they behave towards others...........turning a blind eye and expressing that ..."its just how society is heading", is neither thoughtful nor responsible, its just plain indifference...we'd rather be good examples for our children and grandchildren, than no example at all...........
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RHP User
15 years ago
so modified my language a long time ago. However it wasn't so difficult as I never was much of a swearer anyway. If that makes me sound like a goody two shoes well I'm not - more of an anarchist really. I just have a deep respect for our language - and a beautiful voice makes me swoon Regarding the T: I find it tacky, nothing more, nothing less. As much as we try to protect our children it's ALL out there for them to see & hear. When confronted with things that are "not so nice" I tend to use it as a topic of discussion with my child. Ask how they feel about it, would they wear it etc. Kisses KK
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RHP User
15 years ago
I think the whole swearing issue regardless of if, it is in front of children or on clothing, is the inability to think or speak intelligently, im not saying that swearing doesnt have a place - it does - but to use it in EVERY F*ING `sentence and multiple usages of the same F*ing word is unreal...... the only word I detest is the "C(unt)" word..... but some think that it is fine to use it like nothing else.I guess it is as personal and individual as to how you were raised or what you deem acceptable or respectable.... and you will never stop it or those who feel there is no problem talking that way. what i find hypocritical, is if ever you voice your objection, or mention that your language is inappropriate, you are considered a prude, or stuck up.... hey if you feel its ok to have freedom of speech, then there is also freedom to object to that speech.... Bottom line its respect, but whose bottom do we draw the line on....???
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RHP User
15 years ago
Quoting 'newstart64' I think the whole swearing issue regardless of if, it is in front of children or on clothing, is the inability to think or speak intelligently, im not saying that swearing doesnt have a place - it does - but to use it in EVERY F*ING `sentence and multiple usages of the same F*ing word is unreal...... the only word I detest is the "C(unt)" word..... but some think that it is fine to use it like nothing else.I guess it is as personal and individual as to how you were raised or what you deem acceptable or respectable.... and you will never stop it or those who feel there is no problem talking that way. what i find hypocritical, is if ever you voice your objection, or mention that your language is inappropriate, you are considered a prude, or stuck up.... hey if you feel its ok to have freedom of speech, then there is also freedom to object to that speech.... Bottom line its respect, but whose bottom do we draw the line on....??? 'prude' and 'stuck up' wouldve been some of the kinder things said about us after our post complaining about how we perceived women who swore to be a bit much..........but yes. we also see it as lack of intelligence and vocabulary, and more than a little selfish and self absorbed......... theres no 'respect' from those who do swear profusely, for anyone......those who 'defended' their right (lol what 'right'?) to swear even began another forum topic to further ridicule our stance on this very subject.........its not good enough that we all accept it, we need to say openly that we are offended and to let the person know.........it can be difficult to do sometimes.....lord knows I've experienced that....but usually the more intelligent ones will respond in a positive way........
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RHP User
15 years ago
goodness, i am surprised someone as obviously as intelligent as midnight could say that, climb down from your high horse. good ness gracious. why cant you guys just accept the fact that the modern day children have little to no respect for their olders. its true im an older version type of person, brought up by what was considered the right way, of course we swore and got into trouble, but no way would be abusive to an elder member of the community. i guess though our moral and ethical decline, will carry on sliding....At one time i like most people used to respect police officers, now i treat them as i would a traffic warden. just money grabbers. the world is becoming fucked
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RHP User
15 years ago
Quoting 'Charles_Dickens' are you aware the Victorian Government are bringing in laws for ...."on the spot fines" ....for swearing in public....?? includes the footy too.... No shit.... wasnt aware........that takes it a bit far i think.......I'm all for us looking out for ourselves and telling people when they cross the line, rather than running to the authorities so they take care of things
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RHP User
15 years ago
Quoting 'northchina' goodness, i am surprised someone as obviously as intelligent as midnight could say that, climb down from your high horse. good ness gracious. why cant you guys just accept the fact that the modern day children have little to no respect for their olders. its true im an older version type of person, brought up by what was considered the right way, of course we swore and got into trouble, but no way would be abusive to an elder member of the community. i guess though our moral and ethical decline, will carry on sliding....At one time i like most people used to respect police officers, now i treat them as i would a traffic warden. just money grabbers. the world is becoming fucked Has anyone ever heard someone say that any generation is as respectful as the one before it? If indeed every generation was noticeably less moral and principled than the previous, after thousands of generations we would have descended into absolute lawlessness.A more likely explanation is that as we get older, we forget what assholes we were when we were young. When I was a kid, police officers were nearly universally known as pigs... and I don't remember it being said with any respect at all. I think you people are just getting old...
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RHP User
15 years ago
Quoting 'lil_bit_rusty'Am I old fashioned in agreeing with you Andy?I'd like to think not.I don't see why if a person can be arrested for swearing at a Police Officer, why can't they be arrested for wearing a T-shirt like you've described?I don't think you can be arrested for swearing at a police officer, but you can be arrested for offensive language. If you were to suggest to one that you'd like to insert your erect penis into his grandmother's throat until you ejaculated and she gurgled, you may be arrested despite the absence of any expletives. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm playing poker with a couple of them tonight...
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