F56
Homosexuality. The natural order of things?
March 14 2012
Comments
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RHP User
14 years ago
...that rodeo bulls frequently become gay and have sexual intercourse with each other. It is far from being a sexual orientation found only in humans. Penguins, dogs, alpacas. It's actually very normal. Suck on that, homophobes.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Is that from the lecture I posted about earlier ("if you want fidelity, get a dog" - talking about chimps, bonobos, food orgies and how big your balls are)?It certainly negates the reproduction argument
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RHP User
14 years ago
It's a book written by Chris Ryan called "Sex at Dawn" it looks at other cultures, history and at bobo gorillas who are the closest to humans in their makeup who are not monogamous and they have sex with both sexs and group sex. With all this "study" he concludes that humans are not meant to be monogamous nor straight particularly. Read it awhile ago so going from memory here. :)
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RHP User
14 years ago
You know how people look like their dogs? If I had a dog, it would probably be a dirty slut too. Hugs Stalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
This sounds a bit like yet another in a library full of books that might validate most any form of human sexuality however using lower primates and other species of animals as a baseline for the hypothesis does seem to be a bit ridiculous to me. I haven't read this particular book...probably won't, there are any number out there quite similar however would certainly agree that how we express ourselves sexually is one form of bonding however not the only form. We are, or hopefully should be...slightly more intellectually capable and/or socialized than a western lowland gorilla. Dogs, alpacas and pigs...well I guess if you want to roll in the mud and you come up smelling like pig shit at least the pig will enjoy it. | So if we accept that as a valid hypothesis founded in the facts of nature....the next time my neighbor does something that disturbs me or I deem as an invasion of my territory, I can just rip down the fence, tear off his head and take his female? No thanks, she comes with kids and a mortgage to pay off. | The natural order of things...I hope you wear clothes to work today and please don't just drop one on the sidewalk or like an alpaca think spitting in your somebody's face is hilariously good fun. Oh and if any of you ladies just happen to go into labor today...quite whining, just dump it out and don't expect the male to be around helping you lick off all the amniotic sac. Chances are he'll be up a tree banging another female or giving one of his fellow gorillas a head job. Too, the number of species of animals that mate for life or where the male actually takes responsibility for care and welfare of the young is not a large percentage in the animal world. | Personally, I don't care what others want to do or enjoy...but let's not get carried away trying to validate our behaviour by comparing it to animals in the wild or even Bobo...a gorilla that lived out his life out at the Seattle zoo in a cage, seems he wasn't all that socialized either. | Can't have it both ways...can we. | | *swinging through the gum trees* ...where's the neighbor's wife, she's just another female.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Is Bob a Rodeo Bull
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RHP User
14 years ago
Whereby we have want and have sex way out of our breeding years - in fact it seems to be the main urge that is consistent throughout our life. This makes no sense in an evolution model unless it is a social bonding thing. I agree with ChasingMidnight that comparisons to the animal world are often redundant - and my, how breeders get upset when I say that having children puts us on a par with rabbits and mice, that we do it with no more thought than any other mammal. I have often read about the research on bonobos, but as far as I know they are not as sexual as humans. The human race's intense interest in and need for sex is extremely interesting and perplexing. However so long as we're all having safe, clean, dirty fun perhaps we should just go with it and leave the pondering to the boffins!
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RHP User
14 years ago
I rode bulls in rodeo in the WA circuit in '79. '80 and '81, and ridden in a few bullriding spectaculars since... A few of the bulls have f***ed me.. but .. thank goodness it was only with their hooves and horns :) MY Goodness... YEP.. I AM glad now of the injuries I received - when I think about how bad it COULD have been.. :) caveman x
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RHP User
14 years ago
The comparison to bobo gorillas was only a foot note really not the main argument at all. Again it has been awhile since I read the book however he does compare other cultures that are in existence today and in the past to show that monogamy is not an inherent trait of humans. It is something "learned" and as we can see from the divorce rates we haven't learnt that lesson all that well. As for the comment above regarding homosexulaity.. I don't remember what he conculded about that in the book...however from the comment above I would say that he believes that homosexuality is a natural thing if you don't assume that sex is just for procreation, e.t.c. CM are you saying you don't agree that sex is used for social bonding purposes? Or that it is below you? Leave the monkeys out of it.. it isn't about that. xxMeeka
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RHP User
14 years ago
...it was something I said from the start. | Quoting 'ChasingMidnight' ...would certainly agree that how we express ourselves sexually is one form of bonding however not the only form. | Just for the record...I like this one the best. We all have the right to our own version of what we express, how and with who...I don't judge or really care what others do, but don't think I want to reverse engineer evolution. | So, want to go ten pin bowling?
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RHP User
14 years ago
Bobo gorillas??? I think you mean Bonobo Gorillas. Interestingly, it's got a matriarchal society structure. Female bonobo gorillas put out. It's a form of social bonding, keeping the clan happy and euphoric. Males fight much less, they wander around sedated by cum coma... No world wars... A caring and sharing kind of society that is built from promiscuity. Love is the gun. If we need a scapegoat here for the ills of human society, the scapegoat is an expectation of monogamy. Powerful male chimpanzees control their clans by fighting, by masculinity, by being the alpha male, by an expectation of monogamy... sound familiar? If women really want to be liberated feminists, the answer must surely be to root men into submission. That would have been a social change that encapsulates benefits for all genders. Hugs Stalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sorry, obviously getting confused with bobo the clown. =D
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RHP User
14 years ago
..........sex is sex....unless its for procreation, and the only criteria should be that its between consenting adults....its only when you add that 'romantic' element to it, that labels begin to apply... thats where monogamy comes in, as a natural part of 'romantic' attachment is the idea of exclusivity, and ownership, and no, its nothing to do with social mores or values, as its an inbuilt survival mechanism...we 'pair' to protect each other....and our young....but humans arent chimps or gorillas, we've evolved into the superior or dominant species, because we are able to operate and function as individuals., our social groups are more loosely formed and defined, and we are so far removed from primates in the wild, that comparisons are vague and superfluous. you cant use animal behavior to justify your own lack of, any more than you can describe animal behaviours as 'human-like'.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I understand what you are saying about evolution. However, it's an arguement used to dismiss these comparisons, not only with sexuality, also with corporal punishment. Loving animal parents will swipe or bite misbehaving cubs, pups, kittens etc. and the social scientists will say we are above animals. The point is, it's arrogance to believe we are above nature and that's what we are talking about, what's natural behaviour.
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RHP User
14 years ago
...in discussing what is natural behaviour. | Quoting 'jensman1903' The point is, it's arrogance to believe we are above nature and that's what we are talking about, what's natural behaviour. | However, if it is arrogance rationally to assume that we view it on a species by species basis, then please feel free to use that label. Evolution and the associated behaviours of each species can and should be viewed almost as a ladder...or perhaps a cycle if you prefer. The characteristics and/or behaviours that would assist one of the least capable of all creates in the wild (that would be man) to successfully develop into the dominant species on this planet (which we may destroy if we are left unchecked in our own behaviours) would lead us to wonder if we imitate the species that are no longer relevant to being our own or are now left in the dust of this same dominance...do we justify or rationalize (rational lies) human behavior by looking down the evolutionary ladder? Hurry and we can ultimately start comparing our behaviours to the insect world where it's compulsory for the females to eat the males and they all swallow by their very nature. | With recent discoveries, many of the principles and hypothesis that formed the Darwin theorems will be revised but for now I will simply quote two of my favourite. | "In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment." | "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." | Remember too that besides a range of more corporal punishments, some of these lesser species inbreed and thus the gene pool for those species has been constantly diminishing the species. There are reasons for almost everything...there are excuses for anything. Nature, natural behaviour and science...are inalienably inseparable.
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RHP User
14 years ago
However, science and evolution will never make the human race more than what nature will make of them. After all, evolution is nature at work not science. It's one thing to theorise about improving social behaviour, it's another to reject natural behaviour.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I'd suck him off for that golden insight right there is he hot tho?? dunno anyways YES ITS ALL NORMAL COZ IT FEELS GOOD AND PEOPLE LIKE TO FEEL STUFF I still draw the line at shit play however... god bless
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RHP User
14 years ago
...science observes and interprets. The nature of any species is to separate itself as it evolves thus leaving some traits behind and adapting to those that are more desirable for both survival and socialization to thus preserve its society and domain. | I'll leave it there...how anyone cares to act or what they want to do is a matter of free will and choice, yet another gift of evolution and perhaps as some may view the human soul itself. I celebrate both and encourage any and everyone to do the same. | Thanks...for letting me play.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I enjoy sociology. Back in the 1950's (im guessing here) society put a ban on rock and roll. The science of the day was that rock and roll is bad for our youths. I'm greatful for advancing scientific discovery. Seems rock and roll is a safe and sane dance for all the hip kids in town. Hugs Stalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
Don't go wishing that on us.
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