F74
Gender change
November 27 2012
Comments
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RHP User
13 years ago
People who have had a gender change, how to you feel about this? Would you be angry if someone else told or would you prefer to tell yourself or not tell at all? . This is noone's business...Why on earth would you tell anyone about someone elses sex change? It is up to them to tell whoever they want .. if they want! It is not up to anyone else! xFunlovingx
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RHP User
13 years ago
I know that for some, they wish that their previous gender were irrelevant while being aware that it's not. They've made a very complex decision to go through the process of sex reassignment in order to live their lives as the chosen gender. Obviously, they cannot live normally as a woman if they are having to tell everyone they encounter that they were once a man and vice versa. Ofcourse any person that they wished to be intimate with would have a right to know so I guess there has to be a stage in the relationship where the topic must be raised. How does one determine when this should be?
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RHP User
13 years ago
I believe in full disclosure between potential partners, that way people can make an informed decision based on all the facts. So much easier that way in my opinion
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RHP User
13 years ago
This is just the way I thinking, if a guy has a sex change its up to him to tell the person that he/she is with If I was with a female that used to be a guy as I'm bi it would not worry me at all even if they did not say But if I was with a female that was a male and someone else came over and told me I would probably knock him on his arse and tell him to mind his own dam business NO one has the right to say anything, its between 2 people only...
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RHP User
13 years ago
That's what TR meant, when should that person fess up. Personally for casual hook ups I think it's none of their business. You are now a man or woman so be that person. I think you would only need to tell people if you were going to see them regularly or it was an ongoing thing.
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RHP User
13 years ago
...they are now that person, male to female, female to male...both inside and out.Personally, I think it is up to the person that has had the change to tell the person they are with, when the time is right for them....and them only.Now, if someone is a well known axe murderer (who may or may not had had a gender reassignment) then yes, I would appreciated forewarning on that.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'm not sure disclosure is necessary, but then this is not a topic I'm particularly informed about. Should someone disclose if they've had other surgery that changes them physically somehow? I imagine there are views on both sides. Either way, I don't think it's anyone's right to disclose the information other than the transsexual person. This becomes complicated, of course, if you have a very close friend who might be impacted and who might be really upset if they found out you knew but didn't tell them. A minefield all around, I think.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right. I do have the attention span of a child and I didn't read your whole post. Okay if it was me and I realised that a very good friend was flirting with a trans girl or boy, yes I would mention it. If it was someone I didn't consider a close friend I wouldn't tell them... After all it's not my business and you don't know what has gone on between them anyway. Stay out of it I say.
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RHP User
13 years ago
tell a friend if you knew their partner was cheating,they were dating someone who was bi sexual or married?These are all similar dilemmas.When does the right to know take precedence over the other's right to privacy? I agree with Meeka,if it is a friend then yes I would tell them but anyone else it is none of my business.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'Meeka100' Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right. Echo.... Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right.... Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right........ Damn, it's suddenly freezing in here!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
It is not just gender changes either I guess... I met a girl... I was chatty and flirty to her.. but, I had NO intention of getting sexual with her.. one of her EX friends told me about a nasty STD she had... an warned me away.. All was good.. except.. a male friend started to spend time with her.. I told him.. he spat it.. They had had sex.. and although they did safe sex.. the paticular STD doesnt always give a fck about that.. SHE had NOT told said male friend.. Male friend got tested.. and never had an outbreak.. so, he was lucky.. but.. had he not been told... he MIGHT not have been so lucky next time..and.. there WOULD have been a next time.. MAYBE she MIGHT have told him.. maybe not.. WAS my friend right in disclosing? was I? So, what is right and what is wrong? I work with a fella who did serious time for seriously damaging a "Lady/boy" he had been flirting with, buying drinks for and pashing with for a few hours.. Personally, I DO NOT condone his actions... but, I am aware he is not the only one of his kind out there.. NOR is he the worst. I think the reasons WHY you disclose this information to someone else is probably more important.. IF I went up to someone who I KNEW was homophobic, or whatever..and disclosed the information.. HOPING to see violence.. then, I am a dog! If I knew my friend would get violent when he found out, and told him BEFORE hand.. then I am a bloody hero :) OR, I could say.. "What the fck ever.. not my problem either way.." EXCEPT... I COULD have prevented the pending violence, so I am a dog again!
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RHP User
13 years ago
We are at times on the horns of a dilemma in many situations. Like other posts, when you see a partner out with another person do you tell your friend? Like the STD thing, do you tell your partner or the friend etc.? Or if a person has a drug problem, has been charged with some sex offence in the past, do you tell? Would I tell, yes I would if it was one of my friends or someone that I just knew would go nuts if he found out. Not just for him, but for the woman some men do not see transgenders as women and then they take to them without mercy when they think of that person as a male. Its the risk factor that is a worry for me, for the woman in the mix of this. Though any woman can be at the wrong end of male aggression, but the rage , can end up just like Cavey said One in jail one in hospital or death. So yes I would tell but so far its not come up for me yet.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I think any potential partner of a sex change individual has the right to know...just the same as an individual who has a sex change had the right to do so. We are wired automatically to be attracted to the opposite sex (unless you are gay of course) and that means an individual who was born either a male or female....we then assume they stay that sex until death. This has a direct link on our emotions. When we experience something for the very first time or something that is not routine, the mind and body has to adjust to this circumstance with a chemical like reaction. Simple test....imagine you've just had sex and you are laying in bed half asleep. Then she says (or he says lol)..."don't know if this matters to you but i was born a male and had a sex change 5 years ago". Regardless of right or wrong...dirty or clean...i gaurantee every male that is reading this would imagine themselves instantly freezing up....eyes popping open like 2 massive windows...then a super fast body spasm from laying flat on the bed to standing upright as stiff as a board with the response of....."what the F&&&". That there is an instant chemical reaction to a circumstance that he has never experienced before...and rightly so. People have just as much right in having their emotions respected as a transgender individual does in having a physical sex change. Respect goes both ways in both the physical and emotional elements of human life for everybody.
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RHP User
13 years ago
A man and woman lay in bed after having a passionate, steamy encounter. Like always, she lay beside him just stroking, and caressing his cock. The mans curiosity got the better of him on this occasion, and asked his lady "why is it that you do that after we've had sex?? None of my previous partners have..." Her reply was simply "because I miss mine!"
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RHP User
13 years ago
have to agree with tuscans line of thought here.... if i were tempted to say anything, it would be to the friend, tho i have to say...i dont know what i'd tell them....or how. imagine knowing something like this, but saying nothing.....only to be found out later? how could any respectful 'friend' keep such information to themselves?
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RHP User
13 years ago
You know what.. I just read a few comments that have me seeing red... so I am not going to comment now but of course because I just can't help myself I have to let you know. I AM NOT FUCKING AMUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Meeka
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RHP User
13 years ago
Shall I prepare a disclaimer for you?
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RHP User
13 years ago
of course it goes both ways....what if the 'gal' was your friend, and you were aware that the 'male' she was chatting/flirting/whatever with, was more likely to respond with violence upon disclosure, than not? would i tell 'her'? absolutely.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Well i haven't and for peeps who haven't, I do not think we can really understand the nuances of how this could impinge on either party. Just say if it were me, i would think that if I was old enough and been through enough, that I would want it to be up to me and my instincts, and I would want other people to FUCK OFF out of my business and let me find my barings on it. People change, and people change people, just let it be...
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RHP User
13 years ago
Can I just add that I would tell a friend but I wouldn't class it as some massive negative like you all are. Bloody disgraceful. How can you even equate it to those things Tuscanred they are not the same at all. It's a shame that it would appear that some men haven't evolved at all from your comments above.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'DeviousMissM' Quoting 'Meeka100' Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right. Echo.... Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right.... Well... It's true. Neptune_Drift is right........ Damn, it's suddenly freezing in here!! Very clever MissM, and yes I think I see pigs flying past my window.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Be honest if someone you new was seeing someone that had been convicted of a sex crime, or was violent, or had a drug problem, or had an STD, or he and his wife liked to fuck men and he sucks cock, it they suffer depression, yes I would tell my friend. Is it unfair to that person.. Yeah maybe but my loyalty is too my friend and their safety. I sincerely hope that none of the people I know would react with violence as this would mean I had seriously misjudged them. :( I don't classify gender reassignment as the same thing, this is not something someone chooses to do you know.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I think you are dammed in both ways. You tell a friend what you know and then they are so attracted to this person and goes with it anyway. You are a mean and jealous person then. You say nothing and your friend finds out you know you are a mean person. So I say when you can stay out of it as best you can do. Also really...I don’t know... wouldn’t you see or recognize this woman has still many manly trades? I mean a men who becomes a woman, will not be totally looking female, will she? The hands don’t change, and would give her away, the strong facial expression doesn’t change, they have mostly big feet, and as I was talking to one when I can remember she said when the sex organs are done to reach an orgasm is not like it is for a born female. This was with a men who became a female. I don’t know how it is for a woman who will have a new penis, no idea who this affects the sensation on the penis. So when a man flirts with a person who has a sex change, wouldn’t he instinctively recognize there is something different then to the females he encountered before? Isn’t it just so he is a bit attracted to a bit of maleness in women and has never acknowledged it? So at the end there is the question why get angry? Didn’t he had fun and enjoyed every moment of this? Does everybody tells everything to a sex partner? We all have secrets we don’t tell when we meet. But then hey shoot me; I have never been in a situation like this so I can not really say how I would react, can I?
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RHP User
13 years ago
I also do not see what gender change has to do with STD or some sex crime... If this was the case then probably there would be no sex for a lot of people on here..... Like I said in my first post: its got nothing to do with me and if I am the going out with a person who has had a sex change its got nothing to do with you..... If I new someone or a mate who was homophobic and was with guy who had a sex change, I would rather tell the guy with the sex change to be careful... not tell the homophobic anything... But I dont have homophobic mates so I dont gota worry about it
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RHP User
13 years ago
Obviously, it's still the same person but these 'male' traits are not always conspicuous and not always unique to males. We've all met women with big strong hands without feeling the need to question their sex. Many girls have boyish looks. Hormone therapy and cosmetic surgery are very effective these days. I remember, when working at Bankstown R.S.L., a troupe of tranvestite performers gave a show. Some of these were just female impersonators and easy to pick but some were pre-op transexuals. Honestly, you couldn't tell. One llittle blonde in particular was petite, pretty, softly spoken, not a trace of masculinity. We were convinced she was a ringer. You know, a young lady, pretending to be a man, pretending to be a lady just to confuse people but we were wrong. Their show didn't finish with the onstage performances. Afterwards they would mingle with the crowd and continue to entertain with their outrageous behaviour. They would stop and chat with the clientelle and occasionally allow their voices to drop to their normal register, cough and then resume the performance. When seated, they would 'accidently' flash their tackle briefly, as they wore no undies and they made a huge display at the urinals by hoisting their skirts up high to take a leak. That little blonde was definitely equiped but that was her only giveaway.
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RHP User
13 years ago
If said gender re-assigned, or similar persons were secure in themselves, they won't care what people think or say. They'll brush it off like any other person does and say "NEXT!!"
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RHP User
13 years ago
Gender reassignment is NOT a choice??? Please. You make it sound as though they wake up with a headache, go off to the doctor, and he prescribes gender reassignment as treatment.
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RHP User
13 years ago
HT... You are an insensitive prick. No one would want to go through the confusion and hell that someone must feel when they have been born in the wrong body. No it is not a choice. And not everyone is as strong as you to just say next.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Meeka, it is a very serious matter and even those that have been through it would tell you it was their choice. It's a very big ask to go through and not a single person who has gone through gender reassignment made that choice lightly. HT, I don't really agree with you either. Everyone cares what other people think of them. If a person has weighed up all their options and came to the conclusion that they have to live their life as the opposite sex to which they were born, ofcourse they would want to be accepted that way.
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Playful2looking
13 years ago
Do you tell a friend that the person they are bonking has had a gender reasignment. No it is between them unless you think your friend would react violently then I would talk to to the person who has had the sex change first.t to protect them from my violent friend. all other issues are between them. They are adults and have a right to make their own decissions. On a different note I have met a few women that have Big feet and male traits; that I thought were guys that cross dressed but I was wrong they were women oops dont judge people too harshly unless you have walked in their shoes ...a size ten stilletto he he he
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RHP User
13 years ago
When it comes to drugs, STDs, rape, pedophiles, murder or any violent crime I'd tell my friend in a heart beat!!!!! BUT .. If I was in a relationship with a bloke and no one told me he was once a she. I'd be mighty pissed off but on the other hand if my friend came to me and said "remember that bloke you fucked at the park 6 months back? Did you know he use to be a she?" then I'd have a giggle. It was one night and I can't change it lol so that would go both ways, in a relationship I'd tell, a one night stand if bag them about it hehe BUT.. If I knew my friend would become a violent moron if they knew, I'd warn the girl to run and not look back and never to tell him......Truckin I really miss mine Too and really wish it would hurry up and grow back ;-P
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RHP User
13 years ago
One thing you've taught me in our passionate discussions such as this, is that us as individuals are the only ones that can make us happy. Through our own acceptance of who we are, our flaws, our own strengths, AND our gender or gender reassignment in this case. In my view, if that makes an insensitive prick, then I'll wear that with pride.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Meeks, wrapping them in cotton wool is not encouraging them to accept themselves. Encouragement comes in many forms, through accepting them as people, not a gender, treating them as you would any other adult, as let's be honest, that's EXACTLY what they are.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I was thinking you didn't get it Truckin. But I see you do :-)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'Meeka100'Be honest if someone you new was seeing someone that had been convicted of a sex crime, or was violent, or had a drug problem, or had an STD, or he and his wife liked to fuck men and he sucks cock, it they suffer depression, yes I would tell my friend. Is it unfair to that person.. Yeah maybe but my loyalty is too my friend and their safety. I sincerely hope that none of the people I know would react with violence as this would mean I had seriously misjudged them. :( I don't classify gender reassignment as the same thing, this is not something someone chooses to do you know. Each thing is different, I agree. Drug problems are not always a choice either, neither is mental health or sex offences. Perhaps I just see this from my working perspective of the prisons and other social services. Its not a judgement call on sex changes at all, I think everyone must do what is best for them as far as that goes. Its the bias, and yes its still there in our community, and meeka, you would not call anyone a friend unless they were as open minded as you are. Birds of a feather kinda stuff. What I am talking about is other people with other emotions and thoughts, I think most here are ok with transgender people. There are many bi people here so its not a problem for them. What I am talking about is the people that are hetro, and who are not able to get their head around being with what they (perceive to be a male). We have come a long way and some societies more than others. I for one would want to know, I would say wow that’s very interesting can we do it again Others may not react the same way, that’s all I am saying. I work in male prisons as you know, and with sex offenders I see the ugly side of human nature , as much as I wish it were not the case there is a lot of violence in the world. Telling your potential partners gives them the option to walk away, rather than get angry. A golden rule , in prisons is never put yourself in a spot that you cant get out of. Discloser can often be the best option at times. But each person has to make that choice for themselves, as for many transgender people they are women in all ways, not just physical so its not always easy to go back to that place of being a male , Even if its just to tell someone. Not all of us want to disclose our past at all, so its not just this issue that confront us all when we hook up with people.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I have worked with some people who would counsel people who wanted a sex change. You just don't walk in to the local sex change store and get the plumbing re-worked. No ETHICAL surgeon will even think of performing a sex change operation on someone unless they have had YEARS of counselling, and are sure this is what they want, because once you get it, there is a slim chance of going back. We all have emotional problems to deal with daily. Now top that off with a sexual identity crisis, and sometimes that leads to drug use, EXTREME sexual problems, violence, and sometimes suicide. I can't see how a guy could NOT know that this person has had a sex change, because, while it might look good, there are obvious give-aways as to if someone is/was a man/woman, so they would have to KNOW that person was 'different', and would ask them. When you fall in love with someone, usually you talk about families and kids. Red flag to a guy who wants children but his girlfriend says she can't have them, and he will try to find ways to 'skirt around nature', by trying to get science involved. Right now, all the science in the world ont fix that problem. No doubt a guy would at a minimum be really ticked off by the deception. If I had my balls blown off during the war, and I met up with a woman I wanted to marry, I would be obliged to tell her my testicles were rotting away somewhere in Iraq. She would either accept that or move on. Best to be up front about it.
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RHP User
13 years ago
A few people have mentioned bi-sexuality which should be irrelevant I think. I am not sure by you would even mention it. My re-action is around the list of options you have used. Okay mental problems, etc are not voluntary of course but in those instances they may or maynot cause harm to others. Why are you discussing these things in the same breath is my point.
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RHP User
13 years ago
ok here goes ,,,,,,,straight from the mouth of a pre op trans girl ,,,,,,,im a proud out and about trans girl ,,,,i wear my transexuality like a badge of honour ,,,,im always open and happy to chat with anyone about my expieriences ,,,,i know tuscan well and understand what shes thinking ,,,,,,my profile on here is marked with a t ,,,,,,,,,so everyone looking at my profile knows im trans ,,,,,,,,,,,,,also theres things i cant change about myself such as my deep voice big hands n feet etc ,,,,,,none of these things bother me ,,,,,,,,im just happy to finally be myself and express myself that way ,ive had no negativity from anyone which includes violence ,,and everyone knows im trans right from the word go ,,,,so far my transition has been an absolutly delightful expierience ,,,and i wish other trans people could have the run ive had so far oh ,,,,i thank all the rhp people for accepting me n love you all for it ,,,,oh and tuscan ,,,when we doing that photo shoot hun ,,, to anyone on here that wants to know more ,i invite you all to message me and ill let you know off my expierience so far xxxxxxxxx to everyone catherine
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RHP User
13 years ago
TR If someone told you they had gender history wouldnt you be betraying their trust by divilging that information they have trusted you with. I can tell you Ide be pretty pissed off if my friends divulged my darkest fantacies to someone. I believe its no ones buisness but the two people involved. And as for the bisexual people being more accepting of transgenders. That is a complete load of hog wash. hetero people do fall in love with women with history and have no problems with it. Litonya. believe me sweetie. Ive seen 18 yo girls who have been on hormones since 12 and there is absolutely no way you would even imagine that they werenet anything bit cis female.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Great to hear you. I was wondering when....and right there is the what I'm talking about. A woman that owns herself, and does it with all the grace that she deserves....great post Catherine
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RHP User
13 years ago
I still think you have a very cute arse Photo shoot DAM can I be there
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RHP User
13 years ago
how many have friends or family members who have dealt with this personally? we have both...and our sons best mate (17y/o) is off to melbourne to live with his pre op girlfriend... hes' already felt the consequences of peoples lack of understanding and fear, in the form of a violent attack in front of his own grandparents......sad and shameful.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'EuropianBliss' TR If someone told you they had gender history wouldnt you be betraying their trust by divilging that information they have trusted you with. I can tell you Ide be pretty pissed off if my friends divulged my darkest fantacies to someone. I believe its no ones buisness but the two people involved. And as for the bisexual people being more accepting of transgenders. That is a complete load of hog wash. hetero people do fall in love with women with history and have no problems with it. Litonya. believe me sweetie. Ive seen 18 yo girls who have been on hormones since 12 and there is absolutely no way you would even imagine that they werenet anything bit cis female. Its up to the two people involved, but that is only if one of them is not in the dark. Thats all I am trying to say here, as for the bi sexual thing I mean it in this way a bi sexual would go with either gender , a hetro person goes with the oposite gender I am sure that hetro men do fall in love with women, and trans girls but then I would think they know its a trans girl and they see it as a hetro relationship , as in they know the girl has been a man but at this point in time they only see the woman that has emerged. Its just a question of do you tell a person before you have sex with them? Do you think they have that right to know, or not? if not thats fine, its your valid opinion your choice as all of us has a choice what they tell a person,as an example I always tell my playmates before i have sex with them that I am married. Not everyone does and that is there choice. If a trans girl confided in me and ask me not to say a thing, then I would have to keep my yap shut as i had agreed not to say a thing. If a friend was about to sleep with a transgirl who I had no such agreement with and I knew my friend would be very upset about it then, yes I would tell my friend. I guess its an individual decision we make based on each set of circumtances. I think people are missing the point to a degree, its just about what do we tell a person before we have sex, what do we tell our friends when it comes to some information we have that may have consequences etc and Cathrine , I cannot wait to start the photoshoots. I am very excited about it all. have sent you a message You are very open and a delight to know, and are already a beautify butterfly :) all be it with a deep sexy voice :) kiss me Katoot
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RHP User
13 years ago
Maybe my statement came from meeeting Catherine and I have to say I looked at her and talked to her for a while. I found it fazinating she let me touch her breasts and also I had never seen or talked to a being like her. So I have to appologize hopefully I didnt make anybody unhappy. I have to say after meeting Catherine, i was in my awe how much guts she has to do what she does.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'tuscanred' Its just a question of do you tell a person before you have sex with them? Do you think they have that right to know, or not? What you fail to realize is that most girls who have transitioned a long time ago have had relationships without telling their partners. In the beginning they have been scared and revealed their history but over time as they gain confidence within themselves and are percieved as the gender they are the insecurities about themselves completely vanish. Why the fuck would they want to bring it up each time. I know many transgendered girls(and yes some are in hetero relationships without their partner knowing). Once again its up to the two people involved. Not an outsider who does not know the dynamics of whats happening between two people. You may know your friend. But if he is any kind of gentleman he wouldnt be blabbing about what he does with a girl he has met.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'EuropianBliss' Quoting 'tuscanred' Its just a question of do you tell a person before you have sex with them? Do you think they have that right to know, or not? What you fail to realize is that most girls who have transitioned a long time ago have had relationships without telling their partners. In the beginning they have been scared and revealed their history but over time as they gain confidence within themselves and are percieved as the gender they are the insecurities about themselves completely vanish. Why the fuck would they want to bring it up each time. I know many transgendered girls(and yes some are in hetero relationships without their partner knowing). Once again its up to the two people involved. Not an outsider who does not know the dynamics of whats happening between two people. You may know your friend. But if he is any kind of gentleman he wouldnt be blabbing about what he does with a girl he has met. Very well said Bliss.... xFunlovingx
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'jensman1903' Meeka, it is a very serious matter and even those that have been through it would tell you it was their choice. It's a very big ask to go through and not a single person who has gone through gender reassignment made that choice lightly. HT, I don't really agree with you either. Everyone cares what other people think of them. If a person has weighed up all their options and came to the conclusion that they have to live their life as the opposite sex to which they were born, ofcourse they would want to be accepted that way. No Jensman... what is the choice? To live a lie and feel like you are in the wrong body and raise a family as a man, etc or have the operation which brings many many challenges which neither you or I could ever in a million years comprehend. No one would choose this for themselves is what I am saying. To me both options are difficult and hard. Yes we are the only ones who can make ourselves happy but this is not an easy thing for some people so some tack and empathy towards others goes a long way. The words you use affects people and I just wish some people would think twice about some things that they write.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'hardtruckin2011' Meeks, wrapping them in cotton wool is not encouraging them to accept themselves. Encouragement comes in many forms, through accepting them as people, not a gender, treating them as you would any other adult, as let's be honest, that's EXACTLY what they are. Very presumptions of you HT. You don't know me or how I treat others and I will bet your right testicle I am more open than you! Treating people like adults you say... and lets act like them too.
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RHP User
13 years ago
My apologies for the Italian temper everyone.CheersMeeka
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RHP User
13 years ago
1. enigmaoflove - but what of the argument (and i believe, some level of scientific research - although i'm not sure how credible or not ), that gender reassignment surgery (or whatever one's preferred term) is the act of correcting the physical birth sex with the 'wired' sex so that they are aligned? I'm a little lost with your logic and would question the emotional connection / wiring argument.I'd also strongly question your 'every man' argument. I have had no experience, that i am aware of, with any transgender person, but i would assert that i would not react in any like your description. Yes, i'm sure i would be somewhat surprised and perhaps a little taken aback- indeed i'd even go so far as to acknowledge that breakfast would be delayed due to some level of distracted thoughts - but my presence there in the first place would be predicated on my reading of the person i was with - how that would in any material way change because of a sex change just baffles me - but that could just be me. 2. I think, if i were in this situation of discovery, it comes down a bit to the circumstances... a moment of lust / passion / attraction - all about the sex, then does it really matter if i know or dont know - there is no expectation of continuance. These moments, surely contain a whole host of undisclosed history - albeit to varying degrees.a longer term / ongoing / FWB type thing - well i think i'd like to know - i dont know it would make any difference materially, but it comes down to levels of intimacy and honesty. Can you really have emotional connection / trust without this level of openness? marriage / long term committed (to whatever sexual degree of openness) / life-type-thingy - Yeah, i think disclosure is going to be pretty much top of the list for this one.3. Why would you'd tell a friend and not someone else i'm kind of get but really dont get - can't they get there for themselves? especially when you have no idea how that might impact things. The only reason i can get for this is a)own prejudices / views / values or b) fore-knowledge of someone else's prejudices / views / values - sadly some people could be, i guess suffer some level remorse / guilt etc (say a deeply religious person for example).I think cavey's scenario of preventing known certain violence is almost a mandatory (albeit based in a sad reflection of hopefully marginal reality) reason for disclosure. 4. Wow - just reading / posting on this is complicated enough - imagine how tough it must be for someone actually living a transgender life in real society and having to navigate the even less openminded world for real!
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RHP User
13 years ago
i can understand both sides of the debate ,,,,,,,,,its been my decision to be open about my sexuality ,,,,,,as i have masculine traits that are to obvious to hide ,,,,,,how ever its my opinion that honesty is the better policy ,,,,,,,as eventually the truth always comes out ,,,i have destroyed fantastic relationships in the past by hiding in the closet ,,,,and then being found out ,,,,,,,,,at least this way ,,,,,,its me ,,,,,,,no bullshit ,,,,,,,,,take it or leave it ,,,im trans ,,everyone knows before they take the time to know me ,,,,,bit like a woman saying shes 50 ,,,,,,then turning out to be 55 ,,everyone has things theyd rather leave out ,,,,,,,,and with trans people ,,,,or in my case ,,,,,,,,,,its my masculine past ,,,,,ive transitioned ,,,,,,,,,,a big decision in any trans persons life ,,,,,,once we transition ,,,we are woman ,,,and reminding us of our masculine past is usually something we d rather forget ,,,we just want to rejoice in our rightful sexuality ,,the one we have been deprived off before our transition ,,,,,, good luck to you miss europian bliss ,,,,as you have and still are a tower of strength to me ,,,your always available to advise me ,,,,even tho we have never met face to face ,,,,its a sisterhood hun ,,,,,,,,love you heaps ,,,,,do your own thing ,,,,i loves you heaps ,,,,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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RHP User
13 years ago
The fact that you're so (what appears to be in my opinion)defensive with some of your responses indicate to me that you're a very caring, passionate lady, with the potential to 'mother' those that you care so greatly for. I think it's a beautiful thing, and it's the reason I love our - at times - challenging interactions. :). Xx
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RHP User
13 years ago
love your honesty hun ,,,,,,,,,i posted a trans topic months back ,,,and of all the people that said they would have no trouble accepting a trans person into there life ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you were the only lady to do so ,,,,,,,,,,love your style ,,,stay you ,,,and never change hun xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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RHP User
13 years ago
I've read the posts and thought and thought about this, and I've come to the conclusion that the unaware partner doesn't have a 'right' to know. Our past is our past and as long as that past can't harm someone then it's no-one's business. The unaware partner might prefer to know, and might be upset if they find out later, and that's a risk the transgender partner takes. Importantly, it's their risk to take. Suggesting the unaware partner has a right to be informed is nonsense, in my view. Do they have a right to be informed how many partners you've slept with before them? Whether you've been married before? If you've been in jail? If you're a woman, that you've had a hysterectomy? And so on? I just don't see that they do. If they have a female partner who was formerly a man but is now physically and legally a woman, then their partner is a woman, end of story. Would I tell a friend in such a relationship, if I knew and they didn't? Probably. And not because of any concerns about them being with a transgender partner, but simply because friends tell each other things a part of the trust basis of the friendship. It would depend a lot on the friendship and I'd probably take the same approach many take to cheaters - tell the person (cheater, transgender) that due to the nature of my friendship with their partner I'd be breaching the friendship if I didn't tell them. I'd give them the chance to tell them first.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Well put Brave Heart,Your pass is your pass not anyone else' s
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RHP User
13 years ago
...and I do understand what you are saying. I just feel that to say "they have no choice" is to ignore the courage and internal fortitude it takes to make the decision to go through with the change. Many don't have that courage and choose to go through life in misery. It is a choice and credit needs to be given to those making it.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting '2balloons'1. enigmaoflove - but what of the argument (and i believe, some level of scientific research - although i'm not sure how credible or not ), that gender reassignment surgery (or whatever one's preferred term) is the act of correcting the physical birth sex with the 'wired' sex so that they are aligned? I'm a little lost with your logic and would question the emotional connection / wiring argument. I'd also strongly question your 'every man' argument. I have had no experience, that i am aware of, with any transgender person, but i would assert that i would not react in any like your description. Yes, i'm sure i would be somewhat surprised and perhaps a little taken aback- indeed i'd even go so far as to acknowledge that breakfast would be delayed due to some level of distracted thoughts - but my presence there in the first place would be predicated on my reading of the person i was with - how that would in any material way change because of a sex change just baffles me - but that could just be me. 2. I think, if i were in this situation of discovery, it comes down a bit to the circumstances... a moment of lust / passion / attraction - all about the sex, then does it really matter if i know or dont know - there is no expectation of continuance. These moments, surely contain a whole host of undisclosed history - albeit to varying degrees. a longer term / ongoing / FWB type thing - well i think i'd like to know - i dont know it would make any difference materially, but it comes down to levels of intimacy and honesty. Can you really have emotional connection / trust without this level of openness? marriage / long term committed (to whatever sexual degree of openness) / life-type-thingy - Yeah, i think disclosure is going to be pretty much top of the list for this one. 3. Why would you'd tell a friend and not someone else i'm kind of get but really dont get - can't they get there for themselves? especially when you have no idea how that might impact things. The only reason i can get for this is a)own prejudices / views / values or b) fore-knowledge of someone else's prejudices / views / values - sadly some people could be, i guess suffer some level remorse / guilt etc (say a deeply religious person for example). I think cavey's scenario of preventing known certain violence is almost a mandatory (albeit based in a sad reflection of hopefully marginal reality) reason for disclosure. 4. Wow - just reading / posting on this is complicated enough - imagine how tough it must be for someone actually living a transgender life in real society and having to navigate the even less openminded world for real! I'll say one thing about your post...its great that you can discuss something in a civil manner even if you don't agree on issues so thank you. In my post i was trying to give the impression that regardless of subject matter both physical and emotional aspects of human life should be given the same weighting for 'everybody'. I think in society today we are getting to lost in political correction where advantages and concessions are being given to minorities. Sure, there will always be issues in life that are a little bit more sensitive than others...but i'm for mandatory respect for all not a tippy toe approach because the issue could be considered different or unique. So giving up your seat on the bus for a pregnant woman is great....finding ways to provide better ramp access for people in wheelchairs is also great. I understand an element of this topic will be subjective...so there is no problem if you are comfortable with being with a transgender. I had a homosexual man as a former boss for 6 years and he chewed my ear off with chat...we got on great lol. Also in relation to who tells who....i feel its the transgender individual themselves that should tell the partner. Sometimes in life being open and honest is the best way to create a connection with the best feeling. I don't think a transgender has the right to assume or control that the person they are involved with will hate them or run a mile. I think withholding is deceptive and sleazy regardless of whether you're a transgender, gay, bi, have HIV, robbed a bank, kicked the neighbours dog for barking or any other matter. By not disclosing its actually a manipulative way of taking advantage of someone or some circumstance. For this topic...isn't it easier to just say to oneself...."i'm just going to be open and honest from the start with this guy and if he accepts me he will if not i'll find someone oneday that does". Just a little more on this topic.
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JugandDan
13 years ago
It's not about who they use to be ,it's about who they are today
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'hardtruckin2011'The fact that you're so (what appears to be in my opinion)defensive with some of your responses indicate to me that you're a very caring, passionate lady, with the potential to 'mother' those that you care so greatly for. I think it's a beautiful thing, and it's the reason I love our - at times - challenging interactions. :). Xx You make it impossible for anyone to be mad at you! Arrgghh, you're infuriating, I hate you!
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'CabooltureDandJ' It's not about who they use to be ,it's about who they are today Does a new partner have a "right" to know about a criminal record ? Bankruptcy ?Truth be known I think this thread is a tacky muck rake, sorry TR
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RHP User
13 years ago
*puppy dog eyes, and a quivering bottom lip*
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RHP User
13 years ago
Is not tacky as the posts have been so informative from all points of view. The people that have strong views have all expressed themselves extremely well nobody that I can see has gone all postal on this subject Those that have made that journey have different views and have given strong and logical points of view to back up what they say. These people have show courage to post their own views, and I can only admire that strength and belief in self. my views are just that my views, and not all of them are right, and I can learn heaps from others There are strong women, men and transgenders who have posted here, hats of and thank you to each and every one of you. They have stuck to the topic and not one person has had a go at me at all re this even though it must be very emotive for a lot of people. Not all of my posts are sugar and spice, cool, its the sticky topics that give us all the most information. again thank you to all the posters here. I know some of these people off-line, and I think they are a fantastic genuine bunch and if you knew me, you would know I do not post a serious topic like this just to upset people. Sometimes its the hard questions that show the best in people. And sometimes the replies help to get rid of some of my own ignorance and I can change my views when given good solid information.
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RHP User
13 years ago
With a lot of valid points. In my job I currently work with one transgender man and six transgender women. I have many opinions on the subject, but the one I'll share is this: I cannot imagine how it feels to have been born in the wrong body. But I can imagine your life is a lot harder than mine. So you have all my respect. And support.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Well said Tuscan!
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'tuscanred' There are strong women, men and transgenders who have posted here, hats of and thank you to each and every one of you. Let me do a little editing for you :) There are strong women and men who have posted here, hats of and thank you to each and every one of you. Now dont get me started on the right for intersex people to have the option of putting a non gender affirmation in the tick box for gender in the cencus we have every effing four years or whatever it is.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Its called Middlesex from Jeffrey Eugenides very good read.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Hear hear Caboolture - got it in a nutshell :) OzCool, muck raking, really? How do you figure that?? All ... reading back through the thread I noticed something that sent me all politically correct. We no longer say 'disabled people' because it gives the disability priority over the person. Is it appropriate to say 'transgender person'? Are we too careless and quick with the phrase? Am I being way too PC? And I noticed the use of 'them' quite a bit. Is there a 'them' different from the rest of us? When it comes to inclusion and acceptance, language has such an important role. We can think we're inclusive but then our language reveals that we separate 'them people' from other people - and therein lies our unconscious bias.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'm curious about the no sex option you mentioned. There's been a lot of talk on the thread about being born in the wrong body, as the wrong gender I guess. The implication is that righting this requires a change of gender - therefore we're ultimately still talking male or female. How would a no sex option fit? Is it the same as the third gender debate? I think I've worded this really badly - sincere apologies if I have. I'd love to understand more but I'm feeling clumsy with my questions.
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RHP User
13 years ago
your right, pat me on the head I dont get it, yes I have a cunt and am a cunt with an opinion silly me , next post will be how to make choci chip cookies
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'tuscanred' your right, pat me on the head I dont get it, yes I have a cunt and am a cunt with an opinion silly me , next post will be how to make choci chip cookies And we will have a cunt to cunt discussion on the various ingredients to put in choc chip cookies
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'EuropianBliss' Quoting 'tuscanred' your right, pat me on the head I dont get it, yes I have a cunt and am a cunt with an opinion silly me , next post will be how to make choci chip cookies And we will have a cunt to cunt discussion on the various ingredients to put in choc chip cookies turn the oven on, I am just looking under the fridge for my dummy, that I spat here some place
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RHP User
13 years ago
i dont know why but for some reason i'm compelled to respond - and that's kinda rare for me, at least in here anyway. :)i wasn't swiping at you for your post (or anyone's in fact) - if anything, from the posts you've contributed in the past, i'm much more in agreeance than not with your views. it was just the blanketing of your post which struck me and caused me to refer explicitly.i totally agree with the concept of mandatory respect - and indeed if we had more of that in our world it would, in my mind, be an amazingly better society for all. :)...sadly respect seems so pervasively illusive to many - genuine, pure, true respect that is.Quoting 'Enigmaoflove' By not disclosing its actually a manipulative way of taking advantage of someone or some circumstance. For this topic...isn't it easier to just say to oneself...."i'm just going to be open and honest from the start with this guy and if he accepts me he will if not i'll find someone oneday that does". Again - i agree in concept, and yes - ultimately the impact of non disclosure is to some extent manipulative in effect, but isn't that also kind of understandable in motive - i would say that for most non disclosure, the prime reason is connected to fear - fear of loss, fear of ruin, fear of rejection? Aren't these, whilst unfortunate in rationale, ultimately reasonable, at least perhaps for the person at that time? I agree that the optimal situation is one of open, fearless truth and honesty and that this is something which we should, and i would hope for the majority, do aspire to. To me though, i can fully understand why someone who was transgender (not sure what other term to use), would or could feel that not disclosing was the better option at a given point in time without ANY intent to manipulate, especially given the vast majority of society's inability for tolerance - i mean, look at the range of opinion just in this thread - and this is a specific, 'open-minded' microcosm of the broader society.In essence i agree with your sentiment - i just think that reality is a completely more complicated space than the ideal, is all.for me - i have no idea how i would actually feel if i were in either of these positions. i certainly know though, that if at any point of an intimate relationship (one-nighter through to long termer), I woke up next to a women and was told either a. she used to be a man or b.she used to, i dont know, rob banks...i would be more disturbed by the latter than the former - to me one is about character and the other is about life / journey / discovery / etc. that doesn't mean i would judge either of them just on one aspect alone - I'm sure that both divulgences would be equally difficult to do.I just think that its a whole lot more complicated than we tend to give it credit for and rather than think in terms of the me being 'deceived' (for want of a better word), we can all do a bit more Atticus Finch if we try. and if we did, i reckon it would be a much better world for us all - thats all.thanks for your post
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RHP User
13 years ago
I'm awestruck that so many different views and perspectives have been shared with exactly the respect, insight and maturity that this thread has had - even the slightly heated posts.Rare is the thread i have read in here where there has been no deviation, no degradation, no righteousness, etc. etc.Rare is the thread i have read, where the level of 360 openness, trust and honesty has prevailed.to all - i thank 2b :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Some say "its no one else's business, don't tell them".... unfortunately this has a real down side and risk or anger or feeling of being lied too when the person finds out. Others say "there should be full disclosure, imagine if a lover kept a terrible secret from you and it turned out badly". Transexuality is NOT the same as unethical/criminal behaviour that has been mentioned. It is the person's choice to do the surgery but it is something they have felt for a long time and may well be tied up in their identity. While some are "convincing", there are many transexuals who would bear some mark of their former gender, and likely enough for a person they are meeting for the first time to start thinking "there's something not quite right". So I think the answer lies somewhere between the two extremes. As Catherine mentioned, she makes it clear about who she is, and others can choose to contact her. Others may prefer to get to know someone better but I would suggest a potential intimate partner should know about. Much as we would like to think the world has progressed, its still kind of a big deal for most people as they have never met (let alone been intimate) with a transexual person. Its likely to turn out well but if it doesn't work out then both people have dignity without being put in a humiliating (or more difficult) situation. Just my 2c.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I have a couple of close friends who are transgender and I have seen the mental and physical torment they have gone through. It is entirely their business whether they disclose their gender history to potential partners. If I was attracted enough to another person it wouldn't matter to me what they were/are or what they choose to disclose.It is insulting to infer that bisexual people would be more accepting of transgendered people. A statement like that shows you do not understand what it means to be transexual or bisexual.
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RHP User
13 years ago
if i was going to have sex with a woman i would like to know if they were once a man. omg everyone has the right to know the origanal sex of the person they are about to have sex with !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
YES YES YES: EVERYONE is allowed to keep their secrets to themselves, and also... it MIGHT be no one elses business. BUT.. ask yourself this.. honestly.. as we play the "What if" game.. Let's say Tuscan is a transgender.. She goes out and meets this fella I know (maybe it is Rob who works on my team) Rob is besotted, and hitting on her totally, and she likes what is happening.. Say I KNOW Tuscan is a transgender, and I KNOW Rob is homophobic.. (or any other issue which MIGHT lend him to agressive behaviour) You guys KNOW I KNOW Rob, AND Tuscan's situation. I do nothing, and Tuscan ends up in hospital.. You all realise I COULD have said something and prevented this.. and didn't.. WHERE do I stand with you all? I TRIED to tell Tuscan about Rob.. but.. she figured I was playing games, an told me to butt out!! I said I didn't condone violence, BUT, Violence is STILL part of man's (HUMAN) make up. YES: Tuscan SHOULDN"T have gotton the shit kicked out of her, Children shouldn't get hurt and there shouldn't be any starving people in the world either. AND Tusccan is STILL going to get kicked!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
perhaps it comes down to what has the potential to cause the most harm,to say something or nothing.For some people privacy is paramount,for others it is transarency,these are often competing interests.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Now I'm no expert but I'm thinking it's best you be like Catherine and be upfront about it. Unfortunately not everyone is as openminded as the folks on here, and to be less than honest could have the potential to be very dangerous, particularly in a culture such as Australia where 'blokes are blokes'. If all parties are in the know, then you like it and continue on or just part amicably, become just friends or whatever.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Honesty is the best policy, then let that person make their own judgement based on all the facts.If it was a mate of mine who was unaware of this before having sex.( because he wasnt told).. then hell yes i would tell my mate.And try to be tactful. He also has a right to know. Tough situation i guess, all one can do is hope their is mutual respect between intended sexual partners and let them make their own mind up based on the whole truth.
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RHP User
13 years ago
you just have to be who you are now. Only curve ball i can think of is - male to female change - serious relationship- the kids "talk" !
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'MistressT'I have a couple of close friends who are transgender and I have seen the mental and physical torment they have gone through. It is entirely their business whether they disclose their gender history to potential partners. If I was attracted enough to another person it wouldn't matter to me what they were/are or what they choose to disclose. It is insulting to infer that bisexual people would be more accepting of transgendered people. A statement like that shows you do not understand what it means to be transexual or bisexual.I do not know what it means to be either.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I do not know what it is like to be a man I do not know what its like to be a different race I do not know a lot of things but this does not mean I do not have empathy, I can only be who I am does this mean that I cant comment on things? are we that far down the track where we can only comment on our own situations? have I had sex with other women, yes but then I do not stick that label on myself, labels change so much these days I think this debate has gotten to that with semantics to a degree , and language and the use of it changes. I meant no insult at all. I there for apologise to all trangendered people, all bi sexual people, all men all people with blue eyes all The list would be infinitum for people I have offended without intent. I am sure that my comments offend some people, as individuals. Not all I would hope. And Cavey, I think you need to check out my pink bits, just to make sure the parts are all original. And that my friends is a JOKE..... now I know that one must offend everyone including the cat...but hey feedom of speech comes at a cost at times.
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RHP User
13 years ago
...but you've never been one to shy away from a challenge. I'm pretty sure that you knew, when you posted this topic, that you were going to ruffle some feathers some where. Still you asked your questions with as much diplomacy as was possible under the circumstances. Each person is going to have a different response to these questions and I don't expect there will ever be a clear right or wrong answer. It will always depend on the individual. I admire Catherine's candid and honest approach but even she was only speaking for herself and not all post-op T-girls. Others will wish to live completely as a woman and only share their history with the closest of intimate friends. I expect a homophobe would want them to wear a sign so there's your two extremes. If you were ever in the position to have two such friends that were becoming amorous, you're going to lose one of them, the choice is yours. If you ignore it and say nothing, you'll lose the homophobe as a friend (not a great loss in my books but anyway) and if you do speak up, your transgender friend will feel betrayed and you'll lose her. One thing you may not have considered though is that a T-girl is unlikely to be attracted to a homophobe once they've chatted for a while and his true nature becomes apparent. I don't think this is a problem worth losing sleep over. It seems to me to be the type of thing that sorts itself out.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I had labioplacty. Why the hell would you even need to mention that to some one. :P
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RHP User
13 years ago
Out of here peeps, Knowing Ill never be accepted sux. You have taught me a lot. Mees getting on with my life now.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Sometimes I learn a lot from posts, and others points of view. When I started this post I had my own firm point of view, my own ethical high ground. Or so I thought My views to an extent were based on ignorance. I have learnt a lot not only about my self but about the hurt that people go through to be their true selves. I also learn that were not as tolerant as we like to kid ourselves that we are, including me. If you put changed the word trangender to any other minority group, then perhaps my views and some others may not seem so nice. I do agree we all have the right to know things that may impact on us in a negative way, no matter what it is but really does being a man or a woman in a past life change who you are right at this point of time? I have been educated by this post and though I may not agree with it all, I find myself standing in the middle of the debate and perhaps not so much in my own little narrow world. Posts with a bit of bite, are the best as they make us all think. And think we must if we are going to change the shape of the society we live in. I do not have the answers as I carry a load of baggage, as do we all that gives us all our own point of view. Krissy is one of the few that takes the punches for those out there in lurker land, and if not for the courage of many of the forum regulars to get up there and let others see by sharing their own personal stories. I get pissed off myself at times and want to say fuck it and walk away. But the truth of the matter, I can be my true self around the folk of rhp, I am also not as transparent nor as honest as I like to kid myself that I am. I look forward to the many diverse views from everyone, I may not agree and I may get hot under the collar at times. My dummy gets a tad dusty as I spit it and it rolls under the fridge gathering dust. Without people like Krissy to show us another view, then we can only see out of one eye. And our minds will stay locked by our own key of selfish opinion.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I don't think it necessary to let everyone you meet hear your life story. As for gender reassignment surgery, I may have copped a feel of one or two.... Really who can tell! You don't get to my age without poking a few ladies in the whiskers, and my experience is that it's simply amazing what skills and talent a surgeon has in this field.... Krissy is fucken Hawt, by the way, and from what I hear, just as good at pool. :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
First up... Having this kind of awkwardness isn't limited to people who have actually had gender reassignment... I am a women, I was born a women and yet I've lost count of the number of times I'm asked, both online and in person if I was born male. I've even had people ask me AFTER I've had sex with them. Soooo...what this means to me is that there are a lot of men out there with HUGE homophobic hang ups! So fearful are they of accidentally having sex with a 'man' that they're even suspicious of beautiful biological women. This is a strange and perverse situation if you ask me. What is WRONG with these men? My point being, I don't think transgendered folk have the issue. 'Straight' men seem to have the problem! If these men got over their phobic prejudices this whole issue would disappear and there would be no need for any kind of disclosure whatsoever. Before I have sex with each new partner, do I need to tell him/her that I was once a vegetarian? That i was once a Muslim? That I once stole a book from my local community centre? That sometimes I lie about my age? That I voted Liberal? That I eat pizza in bed, never floss and drink straight from the milk carton? Do I need to tell them that my ex was a communist? And she was also a lesbian? And that one of my uncles is a heroine addict? ...Before I can get my freak on with a random? My point being...shall I disclose every possible indiscretion or any detail about my life which might cause a person to change their mind about having sex with me, 'justifiably' or otherwise? I cannot imagine how having had a sex change obligates one to disclose.... And anyone who thinks otherwise should carefully examine his own morality. As I said, a lot of men can't tell a women from a man anyway. Since so many seem to think my perfect, warm, wet, sweet vagina that drips when it's turned on and bleeds once a month is a 'fake'. I say to any self respecting trannies out there 'dont humour these fools by telling them anything. Have some dignity and tell them only what your good conscious dictates.
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