M63

Drug cheats in sport.

October 03 2012

We've had a treasure trove of fun and interesting threads lately. A great deal of the credit for this goes to Wiccan_Beltane and her crusade to post a new topic every day through September. Congratulations and well done, Wiccan. I know I suggested it to you but I don't really expect you to continue through October on a daily basis but, as you've set the bar so high, I do hope that you do initiate some more quality subjects on a regular basis. Cheekyarses are relative new comers but they were certainly competitive with Wiccan recently. One of their recent topics, "figure comps", brought to mind the subject of anabolic steroids and this is the subject I would like to discuss. Anabolic steroids are drugs which mimic testosterone which is the male sex hormone so I am well against it's abuse by females for competition. While testosterone does occur naturally in females, it is in low volumes and too much does create some male characteristics in female users, ...but what about for use by males? I used to be firmly against it. I believed it was risky and potentially lethal. I also agreed that those using it were drug cheats. When I was working as a gym instructor, I had several of the teenage boys come to me and ask what would happen to them if they were to use the 'gear'. I couldn't answer them with any authority. All I knew were the rumors repeated by so many arm chair experts and sensationalist news paper articles so I asked my doctor for some more accurate information. To start with, the fear the young blokes had more than any other was that their dicks would shrink. This is, ofcourse, a myth. The testicles can shrink with overuse but this is a temporary side affect that goes away once use is ceased. The deaths that had occured in bodybuilders that had been attributed to steroids were actually due to diuretics. Bodybuilders would use these to flush the water from their systems so that they could appear more ripped. Steroids actually promote water retention which makes them look puffy. The deaths occured due to the diuretic use resulting in severe dehydration and ultimatley heart failure. The reports of cancer in steroid users was not conclusive. The incidence of cancer in steroids users actually does not have a higher percentage of occurence than that of non-users. Also, unlike many other drugs, steroids do not have an overdose limit. If you take too much, you piss it out, you don't die. Anyway, I compiled a list of the actuall possible side effects of steroid use, most of which are temporary, and posted it on the wall of the gym. I didn't encourage usage by telling them that side effect occurence was unlikely, I simply said, "This could happen to you if you use them," and left it at that. Okay, so steroids aren't really that dangerous but does that make ethical to use them or not?

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RHP User

13 years ago

I think unless it is a level playing field then it is cheating..the drug user is getting an unfair advantage, over the person just putting the training in.. Question though..an athlete wake up with a headache / migraine and can not compete at their normal level ..they drop a pill for assistance , they compete and win..? I know its a long bow but they took a drug ?

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'Taipan12' I think unless it is a level playing field then it is cheating..the drug user is getting an unfair advantage, over the person just putting the training in.. Question though..an athlete wake up with a headache / migraine and can not compete at their normal level ..they drop a pill for assistance , they compete and win..? I know its a long bow but they took a drug ? Played AFL for Fitzroy, then Brisbane. He suffers from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and like in your scenario, he had to resort to drugs that were on the banned list just so he could play at a normal level.....great player, too. In 1999, he brought it to the AFL's attention that his medication was on the banned list, and there was a whole lot of debate as to whether he'd get banned from AFL or not. Under the circumstances, he was allowed to play on, eventually playing in the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Grand Finals.

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RHP User

13 years ago

Thanks for that Haywood , its an interesting topic..just where the lines are crossed ?

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'Haywood_Jablomi' Quoting 'Taipan12' I think unless it is a level playing field then it is cheating..the drug user is getting an unfair advantage, over the person just putting the training in.. Question though..an athlete wake up with a headache / migraine and can not compete at their normal level ..they drop a pill for assistance , they compete and win..? I know its a long bow but they took a drug ? Played AFL for Fitzroy, then Brisbane. He suffers from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and like in your scenario, he had to resort to drugs that were on the banned list just so he could play at a normal level.....great player, too. In 1999, he brought it to the AFL's attention that his medication was on the banned list, and there was a whole lot of debate as to whether he'd get banned from AFL or not. Under the circumstances, he was allowed to play on, eventually playing in the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Grand Finals. Drool! My fave AFL player ever. Hot hot hot ... Sorry. Distracted :| What was the topic again??

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RHP User

13 years ago

See one if your going to fuck with your hormones.

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RHP User

13 years ago

is something I have zero interest in and could care less about drugs and cheating but when people get caught, it seems to cause devastation in their lives,the people around them,and confusion for those that idolized them. Lance Armstrong,Marion Jones who served a prison term to name but two. Sport is big business and where such vested interests are so too is corruption.

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RHP User

13 years ago

Thanks Jensman,My 2 cents. If your playing in the Hicksville C grade team then yeah whatever and thats your choice (Can't say I agree with taking them). If you compete at the elite level and the stakes are higher then rightly so it shouldn't be about who has the best drugs that can't be detected eg East Germany. I think there are still a few East German world records still around at the London olympics.

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RHP User

13 years ago

That if proven you used them or is doubt about if you used steroids (I am not fully convinced yet he did) then all the things you worked so hard to achieve in the sport become viewed as tainted and not worthy by peers and the public.

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'halcyon_days' Quoting 'Haywood_Jablomi' Quoting 'Taipan12' I think unless it is a level playing field then it is cheating..the drug user is getting an unfair advantage, over the person just putting the training in.. Question though..an athlete wake up with a headache / migraine and can not compete at their normal level ..they drop a pill for assistance , they compete and win..? I know its a long bow but they took a drug ? Played AFL for Fitzroy, then Brisbane. He suffers from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and like in your scenario, he had to resort to drugs that were on the banned list just so he could play at a normal level.....great player, too. In 1999, he brought it to the AFL's attention that his medication was on the banned list, and there was a whole lot of debate as to whether he'd get banned from AFL or not. Under the circumstances, he was allowed to play on, eventually playing in the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Grand Finals. Drool! My fave AFL player ever. Hot hot hot ... Sorry. Distracted :| What was the topic again?? ..but for slightly different reasons, I think

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Paradisepair

13 years ago

And here I was for years writing off the well ripped as being physically impaired. In sport of course its unfair. Otherwise, for 'recreational' use, if there are no major side effects then it's a matter of personal choice. I have no issue there with others' choices and as a big fan of buff especially if it helps someone achieve their bodybuilding goals.

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RHP User

13 years ago

If you have to resort to "cheating" ?

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RHP User

13 years ago

Though some people seem to born without the ethic gene. So it wouldn't bother them in the least.As an aside I saw on a show the other night where researchersare investigating a link between guys who use non prescriptionViagra recreationally and erectile dysfunction because of that use.As to the use of pain killers for a headache, I tend to think that the activeconstituents would only allow you to compete at your normal level, not beyond.So no advantage gained. of course I could be wrong.Cheers Felonious

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RHP User

13 years ago

So if guys use Viagra are they sex cheats ?? lol

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RHP User

13 years ago

In my playing days I seen some guys use steroid to boost their strength and body tone. Personally' I never went down that road , didnt feel the need, but I did see the benefits others got from its use in both my own club and others..I've been retired for awhile now, but still have contacts at most levels. I dont think anyone needs to be a einstein to know players are getting them bulging muscles from gym workouts alone.. But thats the way it is these days... Not saying all are into it , but there will always be those who do...

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RHP User

13 years ago

If they're using it recreationally, maybe they are! Is sex a sport? Cheers Felonious

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'Freya13' is something I have zero interest in and could care less about drugs and cheating but when people get caught, it seems to cause devastation in their lives,the people around them,and confusion for those that idolized them. Lance Armstrong,Marion Jones who served a prison term to name but two. Sport is big business and where such vested interests are so too is corruption. The allegations were never proven, he simply gave up the fight. I'm not convinced he took drugs, because of the lack of proof. Maybe if they hold on to the samples long enough, they might find something, but I won't hold my breath..

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'Freya13' is something I have zero interest in and could care less about drugs and cheating but when people get caught, it seems to cause devastation in their lives,the people around them,and confusion for those that idolized them. Lance Armstrong,Marion Jones who served a prison term to name but two. Sport is big business and where such vested interests are so too is corruption. The allegations were never proven, he simply gave up the fight. I'm not convinced he took drugs, because of the lack of proof. Maybe if they hold on to the samples long enough, they might find something, but I won't hold my breath..

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'feloniusfossil' If they're using it recreationally, maybe they are! Is sex a sport? Cheers Feloniouslol it can be a challenge Felonius !!

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Innercircle

13 years ago

If steriods are banned for use in sports, why is autotune vocal pitch correction acceptable for musicians?

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RHP User

13 years ago

I was saving it as my opening post was already excessively long. I met a former Mister Universe once, and started chatting to him about workouts and muscle gain. I asked him, "Of the competitive body builders, how many would use steroids?" He answered, "About ninety five percent." "Okay then. The five percent that don't use them, ...what do they do to make muscle gains?" He said, "I don't know. I've never met any of them." It's pretty safe to say that most world class athletes in many competitive sports do or have used performance enhancing drugs.It's my understanding that it is even widespread in squash. Masking agents for banned substances are huge business so that competitors can continue to use drugs right up to the event. Previously, athletes would make their gains using drugs off season, then stop at a suitable time before the event to allow all traces of the substance to be eradicated from the system. Even the term "drug cheat" is a little misleading. It makes it sound as though just by taking steroids a person sudenly becomes more powerful but this is not the case. Steroids work to heal damaged muscle. They allow an athlete to recover after extreme exersion. If a person takes steroids but then only works as hard as he did before taking them, there would be no gains at all. They allow the athlete to work harder and push themselves further. It is extrordinarily strenuous so calling it cheating when they are actually going at it harder seems a little unfair.

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RHP User

13 years ago

Thats just to protect our ears, from singers who can't sing. Cheers Felonious, who would definetly need this device.

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RHP User

13 years ago

Quoting 'rockercouple80' If steriods are banned for use in sports, why is autotune vocal pitch correction acceptable for musicians? they ain't musicians

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RHP User

13 years ago

Great topic and one i've followed for many years. I have to disagree i think. Steriods are dangerous not only because they alter the bodies hormones etc...but they damage the bodies organs and a persons personality as well. I'm going to start with sports people first. Arnie admitted to taking "a small level" of steriods during the 70's where he won 7 Mr Olympia titles. He also took testoterone during the 80's for his movies. He also had to have an operation on his heart when he was 51 due to the damage caused by steriods. He and the doctors (to cover it up) claimed it was something that needed to be fixed from birth...sorry that was complete bullshi#. There are all types of different substances used for different purposes and taken in different doses. People will go to a doctor and take certain types of drugs at monitored doses for certain periods...this can have an advantage in the sporting arena and may or may not do temp or permanent damage. Ronnie Coleman, 8 time Mr Olympia champion did a youtube video of what he takes. He has a tackle box of about 25 different pills and about 3 prescription drugs (claiming its for the heart etc). While most of the tablets he took were vitamins the prescription drugs were not...they were heavier and used for an advantage come competition time. Apart from the the body building substances there are steriods (or banned substances) used in sports where being small is an advantage. Contador the Spanish Cyclist was stripped of his Tour de France title due to a banned substance that provides strength for endurance activities but doesn't show any increase in body size. While these sustances are not heavy substances they can cause temp and long term problems with body organs. Just like you have soft, medium and hardcore recreational drugs....you have the same in the sporting arena. There are numerous websites that will sell you hundreds of different illegal drugs (mainly used by gym guys). Substances like Androgen are hardcore that will basically kill you if not within 5 years certainly 20 down the track. In general what they do is fill the body with fluid (like water) which pumps the muscles up making them look big and full....THIS IS NOT PERMANENT MUSCLE OR MUSCLE GROWTH. I've seen a guy go from 57 to 82 kilos in only 6 weeks on steriods. All it does is puff the muscles up with fluid...and yep 8 weeks after being on it the body goes back to its original weight except the bodies organs have been permanently damaged. Also seen another guy take androgen type products....he broke out in a mass collection of black sores that pushed through the skin. Sure initially he looked awesome then had to spend time in hospital on a drip in an attempt to detox his body. 6 Weeks later he looked liked a different person...his body just went back to normal. If you won't to have a look at bodybuilders that have died because of steriods just do a youtube search and there are tributes to some high placing bodybuilders....example one of them died at 37 of a heart attack. A diuretic is still a drug...but its regarded as a safe drug and designed for medical purposes to drain excess fluid from the body. It's very purpose is to help people with heart conditions. If it were considered dangerous the medical world wouldn't specifically prescribe it under controlled medical conditions. However, Androgens and the hardcore steriods are not designed or prescribed for any healthy person under any dosage....be it small, medium or high. The substances in these products are not meant for the human body and in most cases have never been used in the human body. There is no medical benefit and the body often fights and treats it as a foreign entity. Like most things....cigarettes, alcohol or prescription drugs...there can be a risk or side effects. When we are talking about hardcore steriods you are taking a massive risk. Sure there are some that can thank the allmighty above that they are still alive or haven't got a damaged heart or liver....but seriously is it worth the risk. I'm not trying to sound rude and with all due respect...to say " so steriods aren't really that dangerous" is simply ridiculous. Great topic

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RHP User

13 years ago

There were no rules and drugs were allowed ?The Olympics would be a freak show !On Lance Armstrong, wether he used drugs or not his determination, guts and achievements are frigging awesome. I love cycling and he will always be a legend in my mind, along with Eddy Merckz of course.

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Paradisepair

13 years ago

Thanks for the clarification.

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RHP User

13 years ago

...only that they are not as dangerous as the media sensationalism would have people believe. They most certainly can damage organs and even cartilidge in joints with strong long term use. There is no such thing as a safe drug, I want to be very clear on that. Paracetomol can kill you. As can aspirin and ibuprofen. Diuretics, while relatively safe when under a Doctor's supervision can kill when abused and has killed several bodybuilders. Okay, I was focusing on steroids while there are other performance enhancing substances but it was the steroids I did my research on so bear with me. Enigma, trust me, everything that Ronnie Coleman was taking was also being taken by every other competitor on the Mr.Olympia stage. There is no such thing as a clean or natural bodybuilder in the IFBB pro ranks. Contador scored a one month ban for his doping and then was back in the lead on his return. Anyone who is competitive with him would be using similar substances but would have masked them better on the day. Bruce Lee as a maniacal fitness fanatic and died at thirty two. Dying at thirty seven does not conclusively prove that steroids were a contributing factor and even if they were, I don't think you are aware of just how wide spread drug use is in sport. The few who do pass away ue to complications are outweighed by the millions who get away with it scott free. Steroids may have damaged Arnold's heart but he wasn't taking anything that the other pro bodybuilders of the seventies weren't taking. If the gear were responsible, the others would be dropping like flies about now. The Olympics are rife with drug use, even many of our own home grown heroes. I do agree that lifting bans altogether would result in a freak show at the olympics so I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. One last point (and this is actually the item that made me question my own beliefs) why should it be unacceptable for a person seeking to improve their appearance (ignoring sporting achievement for the moment) by taking steroids and working hard in the gym while it is acceptable to have implants, surgically placed under a muscle, to give the appearance of muscularity. Men are having pec, delt and calf implants that I'm aware of. I'm not sure what other enhancements can be done. Surgery has greater risks than even steroid use and the results are purely cosmetic with no functional improvements. It seems to me that a doctor should be able to prescribe steroids to a person wishing to enhance their appearance and monitor their progress through the cycle of use, surely this is better than surgery. I've worked out with weights for years and I've never used steroids for bodybuilding (I have been on a Doctor's precribed course of steroids for an allergic skin condition but these were not anabolic). In my prime, I was able to build my upper arm measurement to seventeen and a quarter inches while my best bench press was two hundred and sixty pounds. Both these were well short of my ambition and I think I might have accepted medical assistance were it available to me.

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RHP User

13 years ago

today shocking news about Lance Armstrong,his use of drugs and intimidation of teamates.Is this just an attempt to continue to destroy a very tall poppy?

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Drug cheats in sport.

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