F47
Doin it for the kids
December 06 2016
Comments
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RHP User
9 years ago
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger 😀 There literally weren't enough days in the week, throw in drama/stage shows, various sports with some training days clashing, including swimming club with lots of sessions there, soccer, t-ball, basketball, music lessons, yr 7 in primary school still, and that was only one child, and we played sport as well lol it was completely crazy. We would travel thousands of km's in a weekend for swim meets, I once drove about 800 km's in a day to take a child to a piano exam. I was so tired, I had to keep pulling over, got there, stinking hot, child in formal wear. Yes I was your classic soccer Mum lol anyone who knows me, or knew me then, will know that. Volvo driving soccer Mum, only thing I was missing was the Volvo 😂😂😂 said child started to feel burn out 😎 and wanted to give up piano. He was so talented, it was hard for me to let him do that, I did, but I cried that night. Fast forward a few years, music is now his life, but he picked it up when the time was right for him 😃
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RHP User
9 years ago
Bought a piano for him when he was 5. Is that a bit over the top? 😀💃
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RHP User
9 years ago
I want my son to be a kid, not stressed and rushed and tired. But he's only (almost) 7, so he's happy with doing sports twice a week and swimming. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
9 years ago
Most coaching/instructors don't go through a rigorous formal training, and the ones that do, tend to be working with elite competitor who are generally going to be older and at the point where specialisation is appropriate. Unfortunately, its only those coaches who've learned about Long Term Athlete Development models (or similar in other things) that do deal with developmental stages, burnout, etc - so that info doesn't make it to the parents/kids. (It also runs right into the profit motive - kids development training/camps is a massive industry) Basically, the kids who have these super intensive childhood learning phases will generally burn out. But, because you have that 1 kid who had some hardcore parents that made them eat/sleep/breathe at some pursuit before they went on to become a professional at whatever it was, every other parent out there does the same. Neglecting that the kid who didn't burn out is one of an infinitesimally small number of people to even make it as a pro, let alone to make it as a kid who was pushed heavily. LTAD sees more pros and elite amateur competitors coming from those who weren't so pushed from early on, and from more well rounded athletes ho play different sports in the off-season of their primary sport. I suspect you'd get much the same in other pursuits. The overly structured and demanding way parents are packing out their kids schedules is being recommended against, in favour of more unstructured time and play. Not that they shouldn't do extra curricular, but the afternoon should allow mostly unstructured play. I do it because I enjoy the few weeks of the year when I'm away at certain competitions, other ones not so much... it's a more complex relationship to it than just playing "for the love of it".
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RHP User
9 years ago
I've never pulled them back from anything- just let the activity phase out naturally. The only rule ice ever stuck with is that if they commit to something they had to at least give it one " round" before stopping. For example hockey.... All three of our kids sucked at I but I wouldn't let them stop till the season was done as they had made a commitment to their team mates. As a teacher.... I see all too often the huge anxieties kids have as they try to cram fifty activities into their lives after school and before school. I'm not a fan of the resulting pressure they put on themselves. This is of course only my experience with my students. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
9 years ago
The only time I have pushed my daughter was when I said enough of dance - you are doing a team sport... so we took her off to soccer in a ballet bun and she kept beating the boys so continued. A hip injury put an end to dance but she ended up in Premier League Soccer as well as State athletics. For me it has been her pushing us - there have been plenty of times I would sit down and say "I know you want to do X but lets look at your week and ability to get through homework". She has kept up the athletics but I basically got to the point with soccer where it was too much impact on the family so she has dropped all but school soccer these days...
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RHP User
9 years ago
That's my concern. Although the with ballet we picked a school where the teachers have the highest qualifications and most have been professional ballerinas/ballerinos both here and internationally. You pay more for the privilege but ballet is one of the most elite and physically demanding 'sports' in the world. Because they require extreme joint motion and torso control not to mention the toll on their feet, I wanted to make sure she was being taught the correct technique, strengthening and stretching. But I'm not a 'dance mom' spelling intended. If she wants to drive a truck when she's older, works hard and does something honest I couldn't give two shits - as long as she's happy and has passion in her life (no offence to hard working truck drivers - I'm more meaning something that doesn't fit her female stereo type). I'm hoping that wanting to dance professionally will be a fleeting phase to be honest. I know parents who started private golf tuition when their kids were three because of Tiger Woods. We only have two rules - whatever you choose to do must be seen through to the end of term/season etc. And with dancing she can do say hip hop or cheerleading - but if she wants to do any other form such as jazz she must do ballet. And that's because it forms the base for all other dance genres and has the most training in terms of body awareness etc. She was in Year 4 this year and it's the first time we've ever slightly encouraged her to do homework. I'm a big one for free play and down time. So much so I dislike the standard education system we have here and feel it's outdated and too formal for young children. Long complicated story but for at least the first part of next year she will be schooling from home via a great distance ed programme. Which is why I'm happy to add a couple more lessons. But she also wants to try ice skating and maybe look at playing an instrument again. I want to be very careful she doesn't overload herself, while at the same time not limiting her potential when it comes to dancing. She has a natural dancers body and is gifted when it comes to ballet, despite missing half of her lessons. I completely agree with you that not being pushed so hard is where a lot of our most talented athletes come from. It has to be their passion not yours. ITM it's nice he's picked up music again despite having a big break, and was given the opportunity early on to explore.
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RHP User
9 years ago
... raising my kids on my own, I had neither the time nor the inclination to fill their lives with "developmental" activities. I filled the house with books and random musical instruments and bats and balls and stuff, and figured they'd find what they're interested in. And they have. They're passionate, interested and engaged about the the world and the things that they like. And most importantly, they're self motivated (so I don't have to drive them everywhere )
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RHP User
9 years ago
for female ballet and gymnastics you're somewhat screwed - if you want to go pro, you pretty much need to fuck with your body and delay puberty as long as possible - and if you don't do that then you're pretty much guaranteed to never be able to reach the higher echelons, you can't roll back time on that.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Maybe a career as an ice hockey goal keeper! Who knows? Personally, I've done "academically elite" at the expense of other facets of my life. I'm not pushing that frontier hard now, concentrating on selection for State vets representation in my sport. I have this idea that I'll give that up to relax into artistic pursuits latterly... I'm driven. Two of my kids aren't, one is. I just try to support them without mindlessly pushing them. In my sport, many of the elite players were not State reps when they were kids. Which echoes what's been said already. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
9 years ago
She doesn't want to be a professional ballerina, but more of a general professional dancer. I changed her to a studio where they cater for elite dancers and dancing for fun, from a regimented old school ballet studio that pushes small children beyond their limits. She's done a year of violin, but this year had compulsory recorder and a semester of brass and woodwind band at school. She was given the French horn, being the only student that could manage to get a sound out of it. So I dropped the violin much to her disgust - three instruments in the same year, dancing and interschool sports was too much for an 8/9 year old in my eyes. She's had the opportunity to play a huge range of sport through her school. Some weeks she decides she wants to play tennis and have lessons and others it's basketball. Dancing so far is the only thing she's stuck with. And luckily all of that was included in her fees! She has multiple disorders and dancing has helped with her co-ordination, focus, balance and endurance. So I'm thankful for that. But it's hard walking the line between letting your life revolve around what your child wants, needs etc and what you think is best for them and the family - financially, time wise, not growing up too fast etc. Rick - sounds like a great childhood to me. Our house is full of books and my three year likes to play with inanimate objects most of the time rather than toys. If there was a Reggio Emilia school anywhere near us I'd send them in a heartbeat! I'm still trying to work on their addiction to technology 😉 There's a 5 year old girl who spends five days a week at the studio. She does every genre of dance, plus private classes. The mother said it's all driven by her daughter but I question how much a five year old can measure in terms and time and sacrifice. There's another mother of a 12 year old who has bribed her daughter into dance, because her daughter loves drama lessons, and that's the pay off. When speaking to her she said "I don't even want to her be a professional dancer. But she needs to make it to an elite level. Because her father and I have decided that she's going to be a sports physio specialising in dancers. So she needs the edge on everyone else." Every time I see her child it makes me sad. Her whole life now and in the future has been mapped out for her. I only hope that when she's old enough she will tell them to shove it and do what she really loves.
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RHP User
9 years ago
I'm a slack arse mum, with a daughter who is a highly motivated and passionate dancer - ballet over all else. When she eventually bullied me into letting her start dancing, I did some research and found a studio that has amazing teachers, industry standard choreography, and excellent approaches to mental health and body image. My girl is driven, and has visions of a career in dance, whether that's as a ballerina or an examiner or teacher. I do whatever I can to support her, but I'm not naturally a dance kind of person, so it's all about anathema to me, but I do what I can, because she's so hard working and dedicated. I didn't have many opportunities to do any extracurricular activities when I was growing up, and I want to be able to provide these for my kids, whilst balancing their need for down time, and not wanting to put too much pressure on them. One of the reasons I avoided dance for so long was my concern about eating disorders and the pressure that performing arts can often place on girls. When you see how much she loves it, though, it's hard to fight against that kind of passion.
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RHP User
9 years ago
I feel like I'm the same! And is it bad that I was happy about dance because it was held in the same place all the time, and I didn't have to sit in the sun and drive around to different fields all weekend? If she does performing team well there goes the weekends :/ At 7 she started refusing to go and crying, but was in a pair for RAD exams so I had to push her, otherwise the other little girl might have failed. It was horrible so soon as exams were over I pulled her out. She had a six month break of nothing. After two months she was begging to go back, but I held her off until the new year and enrolled her in the new school. My son seems to love soccer. Can I steer him into something cold or air conditioned? 😉
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RHP User
9 years ago
Yep, and ballet is the worst - pointe shoes are a killer! Why couldn't she have fallen in love with something that doesn't require such expensive footwear, every 3 or 4 weeks? I don't even spend that much on shoes for myself!
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RHP User
9 years ago
I'm hoping that when she moves to pointe she will say 'Bugger that' lol. All extra curricular activities involving the body get more and more expensive as they move up - better shoes, rep uniforms etc. But pointe shoes! She's so rough on her shoes I have a bad feeling. Just a useless bit of info but a professional ballerina can go through 100-200 pairs of pointe shoes per season 😳 And it amazes me that after they get them they rub the with rosin and Coca Cola, slam them in doors, unpick stitches and rip the insides out of them just to get them right on their feet lol
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RHP User
9 years ago
that's one of the aspects of ballet I really grok. Customising and getting it all "just so", you bond with your gear, they're such personal things, and you can tell who belongs to what gear from how they're done. To the outside world it's just "ugly shoes" (or in my case, sticks or other gear) but everyone that's a part of it could tell who belongs to what based on which stitch is this way, or how someone does a certain piece of tape, etc. Lots of it is just the ritual, and probably doesn't all need to be done, but nevertheless it must be done. At least pointe shoes are cheap. I've got an obvious suggestion for cold or air conditioned, but I guess it depends on how much you like Acacia Ridge or Boondall :p
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RHP User
9 years ago
If they're so cheap, do you want to sponsor my ballerina? A few hundred dollars a visit, every few weeks, plus all the extras? My bank account cries just at the thought of it!
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RHP User
9 years ago
They often bang the noise out of the shanks (soles) so they don't sound like elephants. But it's also about customising them to be the most supportive fit to eliminate as much of the risk to injury their feet as possible. Unless dancers can afford to have their pointe shoes custom designed, they have to mould and break them to their feet. They start pointe at about 11 or 12 years old, but the bones don't harden in their feet until they are 20-23 years old. But there's a kind of ritual behind it also which I think is kind of cool. And cheap? $100-$140 every three to four weeks just for one type of shoe? When they might need four other types? Ouch! And Acacia Ridge is much closer - are you suggesting he might like figure skating? ;)
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RHP User
9 years ago
Snap! I just posted at the same time lol! Oh and my estimates were based on the standard brand of Bloch shoes if your child can in fact use them. Otherwise it's a lot more than that.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Lol! Sorry it would have been sad as a kid, but that was clever. Horse riding is expensive as too! TBH our daughter is so fickle I didn't think she'd ever stick at anything. She can't even get two shoes tied without getting distracted :p
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MissBishere
9 years ago
All my kids care about is music, one loves art, one loves drama and will be changing to a dramatic arts school. Did some sport when they were younger and both were very good but had no desire to continue once in high school. I played sport into my late 20's purely because I enjoyed it. I was never an outstanding player just a good consistent team member. My parents were tennis nuts and the entire family on my dads side were all exceptional tennis players. I was never able to get the ball over the net and serving was beyond me 😂 Much to dads frustration.
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MsJonesy
9 years ago
Completely foreign to me as I was always into sport as a child. I played alot of basketball, but not as much as I wanted because my parents kept in check. So I also played tennis, and learnt guitar.....no way was my mother ever going to let me dictate the whole family routine to an overcommitment at a young age to one sport. A point or two from a person on the outside.... - Three different dance genres at any given time is probably enough for a pre teen. They are babies, so little and precious, they need variety and a lot of different experiences to grow into well rounded teens...and adults. - A significant amount of dancing can actually change the way their bodies develop, alter their growth, and distort their musculoskeletal system, so stop and think about it...for the sake of their mature bodies. No matter how good the teachers, this will happen if they are dancing too much. - One of my nieces had significant mental health issues in her later teen years (depression). Her psych very quickly identified that the concentration on dance as her one and only outside school activity was not good for her. A variety of activities, including team activities, was healthier both physically and mentally. - The cost.....my sister and her husband poured thousands and thousands into dance. Neither of the nieces pursued it past the ages 19 or 20.... Uni life holds so many more attractions ;) Their son always made the point that he expected the same amount of money to be spent on him (not on dance tho!)...cheeky bugger but good on him for pointing it out. Soft, if your daughter is moving to home schooling it is vital she has the opportunity to mix with her peers to keep her social growth on track. That requires a mix of activities not more of the same. Ultimately you have to make decisions which are right for you, your daughter...and the rest of the family. We can only throw in suggestions from afar, what you do with them is entirely up to you. Xx
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RHP User
9 years ago
Dramatic arts school sounds motivated to me! Doesn't have to be a sport just a passion of theirs. Music and the arts are one of the best ways children learn. And music and art therapy is being used as breakthrough treatment fors kids these days. She loves music and art too. Jonesy - you've voiced my considerations and concerns so well. No matter how well trained and stretched they are, their bodies are prone to injury and yes - for a ballerina they are required to change how their joints naturally sit etc. Luckily she loved PE at school and enjoyed a range of sports. Also loves singing and drawing or painting. And it's taken a lot of work, but loves reading. This year her total time in lesson has been 3.75 hours per week. And one of those is acro which is basically hand stands, cartwheels, forward and backward turns and working as a team. Because of some infant reflexes she didn't grow out of - that class has been more like therapy for her. I don't know how many hours per week a kid who plays soccer, or does a few swimming lessons equates to but I'd imagine it would be the same amount of time if not more. But I agree - I've seen more kids burn out with dance than most other activities. And completely agree with you about the social side. We've spent years working on that because she has ASD. So she's already challenged in that department. But we've joined some groups, the school has regular excursions and a weekly meet for the learning enrichment kids to get together. Plus we are looking at some other activities, along with plenty of free time to explore. We will have a lot more time on our hands because actual school work doesn't take anywhere near as long as a full school day when they are one on one. And she'll be transitioning back into day school some where during the year. The cost is always a big factor. We know of several families who have multiple kids doing multiple activities. One girl we know is going dance, martial arts, piano and swimming squad along with regular school. Plus she has two older brothers that do multiple things as well. And that's something we will be discussing with her. If she wants to add in another activity during the day, then she can add more than one dance lesson in. I don't look at the money as far as whether it will take her to a career. As I said I'd rather she not pursue a career in dance personally. At this stage it hasn't been a waste of money because she's gained so much in her mental and physical state as a result. But I also want her to keep understanding that it's a privilege to be able to participate in extra curricular activities. i didn't think this thread would attract many comments from parents who have pushed their kids for their own dreams or agendas. But it's been nice to get feedback from everyone on how they've managed it.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'PatchworkGirl' If they're so cheap, do you want to sponsor my ballerina? A few hundred dollars a visit, every few weeks, plus all the extras? My bank account cries just at the thought of it! ha, it's all relative PG :) compared to things like tennis, football, swimming or musical instruments, sure it super pricey, compared to other sports, it's less so. I'd love to only be going through that much in gear. Soft: do you really think I'd post about the cost of pointes without knowing much about them beforehand? (I did a fair bit of reading on them a while back when I was looking into heel design). What astounded me was people using such outdated materials and construction, not just for the longer life and potential for savings, but particularly in an advanced situation where consistency of performance is so important, it's amazing that GM style construction isn't the standard now. Do these ballet teachers still drive with a hand-cranked car and a walker out the front to announce their horseless carriage is approaching? Y'know, because it's tradition. I know that when I pick up a stick made to certain specs, that it will feel just like the one broken last shift - that's why we left wooden stuff in the museum years ago. It wasn't just enhanced performance, it's the consistency of performance. Anyway... bleh, if you like him walking around with a carry-on wheely suitcase to go to "sport" then by all means. (if you lived in Europe I'd say it's a good base for developing good balance, but in Aus, I'm less convinced based on most of the figure teaching I've seen around the country - balance and edgework perhaps, but the rest of the skating technique isn't so great IMO) Summer: oh next you're going to tell me that Centre Stage was a fictional work not a documentary, and that Step Up: Miami wasn't just a young film student covertly filming a bunch of kids with a dream ;) Soft: I don't think many parents realise when they're pushing kids so they can live out their own dreams vicariously. They're just doing what they think is best, and what the child wants - I mean, how could they not want to do X? the parent loved it so much :p
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RHP User
9 years ago
I agree with it being relative. It's also largely dependent on studios and genres. We are lucky enough to be able to hire costumes for the yearly concert and as a member of the performing team, so while we have an outlay still, we don't have to pay a costume maker or be proficient at sewing. All girls require their own tutu at some point though. Ballet shoes, pointe shoes, jazz shoes, tap shoes, shoes for hip hop (usually high tops or Timberland style boots), tights for ballet and jazz. I guess when they are growing is much more of an expense - they outgrow their tap shoes usually before wearing them out. But ballet shoes both soft and pointe, and jazz shoes wear out quickly. Tights - yeh they are only about $15-$19 per pair depending on studio requirements. But every time they perform you're packing extras. Plus we can put a new pair on at the studio and have a ladder in them half way through a lesson. Luckily her dance school is pretty relaxed for the little ones and she often goes homeless in non standard gear, including no tights half the time (sensory issues). But her last dance school was pretty much like you described. Everything must be perfect or you're out of the class whether you're 15 or 5. Sticks were used on the older kids. No child needs that kind of perfection placed on them. GM? Yes but sadly that's not the case. Nike work in collaboration with Bloch, but in comparison to 'sports' shoes the technology is poor. It's an art form and not an Olympic sport which is probably why - even though a professional ballerina/ballerina could run rings around most professional athletes ;) I somehow think that my monkey man would rather being smashed repeatedly swinging sticks around than perfecting a Salchow ;) But the way you're talking has me worried about the cost of sticks and other equipment! I sadly haven't researched that sport the way you've researched point shoes :p And hey the Step Up series is a documentary! Especially All In - my favourite because of the Steampunk finale. Just like Top Gun was real no?
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On_Safari
9 years ago
As a kid I got guitar lessons, played tennis and hockey. My passion was always dining and horses and I thankfully got to indulge both. When I was 11 we moved to a part of town surrounded by racing stables so a strapper I became. At 10 I came second in the state eisteddfod for singing, list by half a point because I broke into song too early on the final verse. My kids did flute, piano, trumpet. One is a self taught guitarist apart from Miss 19 none stuck with instruments once they hit Yr8 it wasn't cool anymore. They also dropped out of sports soccer, gymnastics, dance and pony club. Someday I hope they'll discover something to be passionate about and become a success at it be it work, play or just something that makes them happy. Miss 23 is on the road to saving for a baby atm apart from being happy in life maybe that's going to be all she needs to be passionate about : her little family. Sometimes it's just the simple things ~ Indy
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'SoftandCurious'GM? Yes but sadly that's not the case. Nike work in collaboration with Bloch, but in comparison to 'sports' shoes the technology is poor. It's an art form and not an Olympic sport which is probably why - even though a professional ballerina/ballerina could run rings around most professional athletes ;) .... And hey the Step Up series is a documentary! Especially All In - my favourite because of the Steampunk finale. Just like Top Gun was real no? definitely, Top Gun was all real... except the Cruise riding the motorbike next to the runway, where you can see the flatbed truck they had his bike sitting on while it was driven down the road. But I'm assured that was purely for the shot, the Cruise sized mini-bike couldn't get fast enough with those tiny lil wheels ;) I think they also didn't show the step ladder near the restroom benchtop he was proposing to put Charlie on top of so she could stop making a big mistake with older guy and make an even bigger one with a young guy. GM = Gaynor Minden. It's funny, mentioning the tutu requirement but being somewhat negative about the GM because "art" and tradition. The tutu was a bit shocking when it was first introduced, even pointes were an innovation and same with new movements/techniques... until everyone is years down the road and the old establishment has a bit of change. (not to say sports aren't mired in tradition that holds them back - looking at you WADA .. joking... kinda - just perhaps less so in equipment) (Any stories from other coaches/trainers/tutors/teachers of kids, for a different POV to parents?)
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RHP User
9 years ago
I didn't know dining was a sport, where do I sign up? :p Love self taught musicians, and passions change as people experience new things. I think everyone just wants their kids to be happy. S - I knew what GM stood for, and no not General Motors. And now I'm going to have to watch Top Gun again (apologies to hubby in advance). And yes! Surely there's a lot more of you out there - coaching soccer, netball ref? Hello?
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'SoftandCurious'S - I knew what GM stood for, and no not General Motors. And now I'm going to have to watch Top Gun again (apologies to hubby in advance). (wasn't sure as you had the ? after GM) you'd have to apologise for watching Top Gun? Really? it's fucking badass, even with all the continuity and technical errors. Even the volleyball is awesome, the music is kickass, you find out that mother goose is a pussy, and how to do a Top Gun High five! (growing up on a fighter base, unlike Tom Cruise, I've _actually_ raced my bike down alongside a fighter taking off... granted I was 4, it was a BMX... and a jeep with dogs arrive shortly thereafter to tell us to stop sitting at the end of the runway... but still)
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RHP User
9 years ago
Or anything by John Hughes. I get the big eye roll - he hasn't even sat through it all. Intro gets me going every time! Definitely no Maverick here. Seriously who did I marry? Sounds like a fun childhood! Should start a new post about out the box things we did as kids. For me it was army barracks, rifle ranges and Boggo Road Prison ;) and no not to visit an inmate.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'SoftandCurious' Or anything by John Hughes. The west australian car dealer? that's a pretty niche interest there ;) (as a director, that's a stack of BIG hits, and a shitload of .. umm... shit)
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RHP User
9 years ago
Re soccer, my daughter played as well through high school and so lots of soccer mum 'support' lol on the sideline 😊 always thinking, God can't they run faster than or why didn't they stop the ball going past 😂😂😂 it's easy from the sideline, so I discovered when I decided to give it a go one day with the adults. Holy shit, it's harder than it looks, because you can only use your feet, how stupid is that 😀 I lasted about 5 minutes, ran off for a drink and never went back on, fuck that for a joke, but it did give me a new appreciation for just how hard it was. As far as dancing, my daughter wasn't into it, thank god, I was actually thankful she wasn't, such a lot of time and expense with costumes. So I guess I was guilty of not encouraging dance interest lol
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RHP User
9 years ago
👍👌
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RHP User
9 years ago
Does Barry Manilow know you raid his wardrobe? Bit me :p
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