F65
Carbon Tax
August 02 2011
Comments
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RHP User
14 years ago
basically the way i see it is that any cost's that business's have to take on will ultimately be passed on to the consumers. those cost's will not be absorbed by business as it would be stupid for a business to absorb those cost's which would inturn be bad for their shareholders.as far as i am concerned there will be little incentive to business to clean up their act apart from the fact that if they do clean up their act a bit and don't have to pay carbon tax then their margins will be bigger. imo taxation is not an effective behaviour changer, it is a bad tactic and all it will really do is make it look like the government is doing something. the current labor government is pathetic and useless and nothing has changed since julia took over.i grew up in a labor family and voted for rudd to get in but he was a dud. now i am voting liberal since labor had their chance and fucked up. direct action and legislation is the only sensible way to change corporate behaviour without punishing householders
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RHP User
14 years ago
BIg business is big business. They're ruled by the market to make profit. They will not absorb a tax for the good of humanity, they will simply pass it on.It astounds me that we will tax our own fossil fuels used domestically, yet will send fossil fuels off shore completely tax free, thereby giving an economic advantage to other economies at the expense of our own.I can see that the chinese and indian populations have a considerably lower carbon emissions per capita than we do and if they match ours, then the world is stuffed, yet, that's no reason to deny them. They will expand their c02 emissions by 300 - 400% without a doubt but per capita it would still be less than ours. Seems we must reduce our domestic consumption.Our tax will not make a lick of difference to the global picture... but Julia Gillard will do anything to stay in power, even pander, as she is doing now, to the whims of Bob Brown.HUgsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
..that in reality this carbon tax may have very little effect at all as there are far greater things blowing in the wind to worry about. America is up the shit, so demand for chinese imports will decline so china will be up the shit. If no one has any money then who needs to burn carbon? I guess we can keep our miners employed if they home deliver for ye old coal stove.Maybe just maybe the govt knows we're stuffed in a few years anyway and are going to try and skim some money into the coffers before the shit really hits the fan.I also hear that Africa is about to boom in the mining sector, now do we thing anyone is going to want to pay Aussies a shitload to dig the stuff out when Africa will do it for a fraction of the price. I guess we all have to hope that Africans will spark up and start killing each other so we can be kept in the luxurious manner we're accustomed to.Now this is all hearsay and I do hope I'm well off the mark!
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RHP User
14 years ago
lolz Puppy. If you're right, then that's a long way from transparent governing.The way I see it, the tax is so effing stupid there MUST be a hidden agenda... and all the pamphlets dropped in my mailbox at home tells me that the government is desperate to keep the reasons from us plebs. How can CO2 be a pollutant when all life on earth is ultimately derived from it? My hat goes off to these people with their ingenuity and gall (or should that be Gore) to even believe they could fool most of humanity. As an aside, they even threw in farting cows as a destroyer of the planet, and now NZ has a farting cow tax - they must really be laughing at that one. Hands up anybody who seriously believe that farting bovines are a threat to the planet!! There is absolutely no credible evidence to say that human induced CO2 has any bearing whatsoever on global temperatures. The reason the terminology was changed from "global warming" to "climate change", was that from 1995 to around 2005 there was actually global cooling, this obviously didn't fit with their requirement, so they decided to change the terminology. The fact of the matter is we could double CO2 content without it duly affecting global temperature. Both air temperatures and ocean levels have been far higher than today, way before humans even existed on the planet.I do think we cold reduce our carbon footprint none the less, but all this is perpetuated by: 1) Scientists, who have made a living researching this, and if they come up with the conclusion "All is fine and there is nothing to worry about" - will quickly find themselves out of a job.2) If they don't actually know they'll err on the side of caution.... and lets face it these very same scientists cannot accurately predict what the temperature is going to be next Tuesday, so how are they possibly going to predict a 2 degree change in the next 100 years.... (And by the way, a 2 degrees warming is something this planet has experienced before now without our carbon emissions). 3) The media - who is only interested in perpetuating fear, and like the scientist, what's there to report if all is hunky dory. It really is clever of these people going after the politicians as they are the people in control, and unfortunately, the most gullible of society.Plus the tax does NOTHING to reduce carbon emissions. Hands up anyone who thinks that charging me extra on my electricity bill will reduce the carbon emissions of the planet? In any case, the greatest ozone gas is water vapour... representing 99%.. until science works out how it really works, speculating that a carbon tax will save the planet is just plain dumb.HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
ozone gas... I mean greenhouse gas... and the figure 99% for water vapour is guessed from memory.. it's probably higher.Seems to me that, should you wish to change the planet for the better, we are all better off staying at home and rooting than driving around in our cars and working all day. Shag for life. great slogan for the sex party.HugsS
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RHP User
14 years ago
This is simply a tax...and yes, expect the impact of it to be felt in virtually every household budget across Australia. The sales pitch on this one was vaguely related to the Kyoto Protocol but we are about a decade away from any sort of carbon tax trading scheme that would to some extent fund this tax however the outcomes for the environment have repeatedly been proven very minimal. Just about the time the public outcry in opposition to the superannuation surcharge being levied over the mining industry starts to fade...this one was fed to us on a not so silver spoon. Whilst the sound of a surplus budget was good then the deficit budget woke us up...Australia too is carrying a very large global debt. | The US is stuffed to a large extent as it is the trading floor and mercantile currency for all world economies...that is if you happen to ignore the true internal Yuan in China which is marked to market at the discretion of the government. The big bomb at the last G20 wasn't a recognition of a global debt crisis but more so a walk away from the table in discussions between the US and China regarding treasuries. Remember that the US does not only "consume" Chinese goods but is also one of the biggest distribution points globally for the products made under any number of massive corporate structures and even lesser brand names that we all know an love. We do it here too...just ask Harvey Norman and JB HiFi who record all time record quarterly profits when Krudd decided to give us all $900 to go out and by televisions made in China. | Other leading indicators...gold prices are ludicrous and things like the paper equivalent FRN are no longer fully funded. There was a bit of magic that Copperfield would have loved to pull off...one day the gold bar equivalent registry had these backed at 100% to value then all of a sudden the registry showed less gold than before and the values became underfunded. Where did that gold go...wasn't me, honest. | I'll shut up now...I could probably fill a couple of columns here but suffice it to say, it's a tax. If you are getting a lot of sleep, track $1 you earn and follow it down the tax path. Income tax, the GST, fuel tax levy, tax on super earnings, medicare levy....those are taxes too. Funny, people use to tease the hell out of me about living in the woods and being able to hunt, fish, forage, find water, build a fire and find shelter. I wrote all their names down...I will choose my friends carefully. | Don't worry too much Mr. P..."GFC II" is coming to a world theatre near you soon. If you hated the original, chances are you aren't going to like the sequel very much at all. Just glanced at my real time currency valuations here too....since Aunt and Uncle Sam gave the boys a higher spending limit on the charge card a couple of days ago, our currency just dropped by 3 cents against the dollar. | Now I'll shut up...this shit is depressing. Any of you fine young ladies in the mood for a mercy root? It's too early to start drinking today so why not. No wait, it's just past 7:00 p.m. in Washington... | ...and you know Obama is tossing back a few.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Aaargh, when you put it like that Stalky and Midnight, it is tooooo depressing. So really, from what your saying and forgive me if I got it wrong but 'it's a load of crap', just another tax based on less than 'proven' scientific facts but rather scaremongering and political game playing? I did hear, and again, just random things that I take in from the telly or interview from time to time, - that a recent volcanic eruption put out more 'carbon emissions' in one event than what mankind does over a lengthy period of time. Like I said, I haven't really dutifully followed the science or the political argument over this but now of course, we are faced with our current political team introducing a tax of dubious warrant and it kind of does make one sit up and suddenly take note.You introduced another factor too into the discussion, and yet another thing I am fairly ignorant of - that is, the state of the American economy. I follow the argument with regard to .. if they collapse..so does China. The Europeans don't seem much better off with Greece recently having to introduce stringent economic policy. How did it get to be like this? And more importantly, what gets to be done about it? And if nothing is..successfully at least, what is the outcome?
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RHP User
14 years ago
Damn TV bonus, first you just had to have a kid to have a big screen - know a guy who worked at JB who was dismayed at carrying TVs out to try and fit in old bombs with 2 or 3 baby seats in the back - and these people always whinge that things are too expensive! Isn't it funny how TVs came down in price overnight when that was knocked on the head! Then there's the second Krudd TV, missed that too - bugger!!!!Stalky I love a good conspiracy theory but really you must be joking about "transparent governing" sorry mate but we just can't handle the truth and really everyone just wants to live in their safe little bubble and hope someone, somewhere just fixes things for us so we don't have to tighten our belts - society is to blame I tell ya!Midnight, if you have a cosy cabin in the wilderness to escape to all you really need is some company, you know of man's best friend? I know two pups that will keep you warm at night!
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RHP User
14 years ago
A carbon tax is good....in theory, but then so was communism. This tax is just a thinly veiled excuse to prop up the government coffers. Naturally any costs are going to be passsed on to the consumers. Big business will not take a profit cut or thier shareholders will be screaming to sack the management. If it was possible for this to be a world wide thing then maybe some of the big business's may look for more greener alternatives.....or then again, they can just trade off more efficient areas of commerce. Yes the world ecomony is very unstable at the moment but any economist worth thier salt would have seen this coming. Western society has become too fond of our affluent lifestyle. Having just spent five days without any electricity, it is amazing how much the average household does rely on our gizmos and gadgets. l Those of us who can survive in the woods, hunting, fishing and forraging are indeed fortunate as these are dying skills in our society. Skills I am glad to have.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Forgot to mention that Australians had the same hue and cry over the intorduction of GST. Admittedly, the then government stuffed that up as well but now we have all been living with it for a while, we hardly even bat an eyelid at the extra costs. The carbon tax will no doubt be the same.
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RHP User
14 years ago
My uni training told me 30 years ago about the phenomenon known as "tragedy of the commons"... and in that time nothing has changed... we're still using the planet like its resources are endless.My science geek friends tell me that the volcano thing is wrong... our activities release more C02.. volcano's letting off crackers certainly doesn't help the situation though.The science indicates that the earth has been much warmer... that when it is much warmer there is not a lot of available land... that Europe will be worse off given the high population... that 10 Billion people will not be able to live on a planet that, predictions show, will only sustain a couple hundred million peeple... that people are capable of ruffing it... so the reduction will not be a peaceful one.... that we're not helping what will happen naturally anyway.... and there's really diddly squat we can do about it as we're just pissants on a rock that's 8.4 billion years old.The tax does nothing.. it's just another tax... and the planet cannot sustain 10 billion people no matter what we do. I highly recommend world wide vasectomies and a 100 year love in.HugsStalky Quoting 'CrackUp' Aaargh, when you put it like that Stalky and Midnight, it is tooooo depressing. So really, from what your saying and forgive me if I got it wrong but 'it's a load of crap', just another tax based on less than 'proven' scientific facts but rather scaremongering and political game playing? I did hear, and again, just random things that I take in from the telly or interview from time to time, - that a recent volcanic eruption put out more 'carbon emissions' in one event than what mankind does over a lengthy period of time. Like I said, I haven't really dutifully followed the science or the political argument over this but now of course, we are faced with our current political team introducing a tax of dubious warrant and it kind of does make one sit up and suddenly take note.You introduced another factor too into the discussion, and yet another thing I am fairly ignorant of - that is, the state of the American economy. I follow the argument with regard to .. if they collapse..so does China. The Europeans don't seem much better off with Greece recently having to introduce stringent economic policy. How did it get to be like this? And more importantly, what gets to be done about it? And if nothing is..successfully at least, what is the outcome?
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RHP User
14 years ago
If you would like to know more... then I recommend that you watch "Crude - the incredible journey of oil" on the abc science web site.. or here: http://www.smh.com.au/tv/show/crude/crude-20100814-124bj.htmlas well as something about the tax here: http://vidcall.com/index.php/videos/show/2090/#chooseVidcallMailWin-coming-sApparently we're accelerating the carbon dioxide cycle by pulling all the oil and coal out of the ground and pumping it into the air..... the cycle is inevitable.... the speed of the cycle may not be as fast without our intervention.HUgsstalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
We thought we would try farming Macadamia nuts 5-6 yrs after being in industrial and hospitality industries for a change. We can confirm there is no money in your nuts! From what we can make out....the Government imposed compulsory levies on the Aussie nut farmer to pay for research to look after our nuts better. This research was then taken by government do goodies to help out countries like Africa with their macadamia nuts. The end result being Aussie nut farmers gets to work for the same rates as the African worker. As SA just says on the world market whats the Aussie rate? and we are 10% under. This is why the previous owner employed Abos under the table and made a very rough shed for them to live in, to harvest nuts! Carbon tax ....we see sending us on the same road! We have now put a bull dozer thru the nut trees and are now property developers / traders, shorting the market..isnt it great to see the ASX going down, we are making money!....selling off our land in blocks as well! Maybe the Chinese or Indian etc will buy one of our blocks because they don't have leaders making them non competitive!
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Forgot to mention that Australians had the same hue and cry over the intorduction of GST. Admittedly, the then government stuffed that up as well but now we have all been living with it for a while, we hardly even bat an eyelid at the extra costs. The carbon tax will no doubt be the same. yeah the implementation was pretty bad but in the end i think it worked out as the tax burden was felt evenly across the demographics. plus tourist's contributed more to taxation than ever before. plus since it was a consumption tax the well off couldn't avoid it by clever accounting so in the end i think it was a much fairer system.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Hi Stalky, I just wanted to thank you for the links...I am watching the one entitled 'Crude' at the moment (well grabbing a coffee, dropping u a line and then back to finish watching it. It's fascinating. I didn't know how oil came into being, so it's been enlightening and pitched so it's quite easy to understand, I am looking forward to seeing the remainder of it. I really appreciate you sending it..and urge anyone reading this forum to have a look at it as well. xCrackUp
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RHP User
14 years ago
ha! Yeah.. sorry.. I should have warned you that it takes about an hour to watch... but it's well worth the effort!HUgsStalky Quoting 'CrackUp' Hi Stalky, I just wanted to thank you for the links...I am watching the one entitled 'Crude' at the moment (well grabbing a coffee, dropping u a line and then back to finish watching it. It's fascinating. I didn't know how oil came into being, so it's been enlightening and pitched so it's quite easy to understand, I am looking forward to seeing the remainder of it. I really appreciate you sending it..and urge anyone reading this forum to have a look at it as well. xCrackUp
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RHP User
14 years ago
OH FFS
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RHP User
14 years ago
Strange place to be discussing this topic but what the hell.... It is estmated the Carbon Tax will add about 0.7% to the inflation rate. Hardly a great impost. As for what Australia does will make little or no difference to the world as a whole then the answer to that is quite simple. By contributing to the abatement of carbon emissions we, as a country, are then in a position to argue that other BIG polluters pull their weight. If we shrug our shouders and do nothing then we give up any moral imperative we have. And for those that think that that stance doesn't work then I would suggest you have forgotten some of the lessons of the eigthies economic reforms whereby Australia (through the Cairns Group) lead the world to the view that lowering tariffs and import restriction would be good for all economies (the so called level playing field). Much maligned at the time but it worked.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I just love this site :) Crackup thanks for putting this topic up! I had it in the back of my mind to catch myself up and tune into this stuff but there is too as there so much crap to filter thru to get facts. Plus news is depressing and upsetting for the most part, so i am guilty of just focusing on my little life and the people directly in it most of the time. I found all the comments really awesome as a summary to the hype, RHP Beats any of our TV news any day! Now let's plan that love in to save out planet!!! Awesome, Mr.S, get him into power and see how things will change! Haha
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RHP User
14 years ago
Boobalicious, you are so right - there is a wealth of information amongst the contributors and it's great to have everyone give their two cents worth. All we need is a couple of bottles of wine, a table and pizza and we could have a right old night of it. TV journos...beware lol.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Ok.. I'm not sure where you think this fabulous level playing field resides as an amazing success, because the USA subsidises the crapper out of everything.. and Australia now manufactures nothing and our farming industries are fucked up... we just exports commodities ... so much for the good that has done.... Furthermore, you might believe the tripe being spewed by the government on the potential inflation but you've overlooked the limiting factor.. that prediction is forecast for the 2012-13 financial year based on a carbon tax price of $23 per tonne... but carbon prices are not fixed and themselves subject to inflation by Al Gore and his mates... so the prediction is as rubbery as a muppet... and then Julia intends putting income tax rates up.HugsStalky Quoting 'unusualsearch' Strange place to be discussing this topic but what the hell.... It is estmated the Carbon Tax will add about 0.7% to the inflation rate. Hardly a great impost. As for what Australia does will make little or no difference to the world as a whole then the answer to that is quite simple. By contributing to the abatement of carbon emissions we, as a country, are then in a position to argue that other BIG polluters pull their weight. If we shrug our shouders and do nothing then we give up any moral imperative we have. And for those that think that that stance doesn't work then I would suggest you have forgotten some of the lessons of the eigthies economic reforms whereby Australia (through the Cairns Group) lead the world to the view that lowering tariffs and import restriction would be good for all economies (the so called level playing field). Much maligned at the time but it worked.
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RHP User
14 years ago
How anyone with an inkling of economic nouse could possibly think the world is an even playing field is beyond me. Is this not why all OUR major companies are now off shore? Why is it our manufacturing is done overseas by the very countries who will not now, nor ever support a carbon tax. It would be economic suicide for countries like China who is emerging as a strong economy in these difficult times. I guess it is easy when the workers can live on a bowl of rice a day. As for anyone who thinks that what ever they do does not make a difference.....more fool you. Sit on the couch and complain. Do nothing. Each and everyone of us has the responsibility of reducing our own carbon footprint. I, at least, would like something left to pass on to my great grandkids.
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RHP User
14 years ago
When I mentioned the so called "level playing field" I meant exactly that.... so called.The fact is that as a result of the Cairns Group, pressure was brought on the likes of the Europeans, The Americans and the Japanese to bring to a conclusion the talks that had been dragging on for about a decade (Gatt) re reducing import tariffs and various other restrictions with regards to what countries would allow to be imported (does America still stifle trade through retsrictions and propping up of their economy? Yes. But not to the extent that they did.). There WAS a freeing up of all economies to overseas trade and imports. As a for instance Holden actually exported engines to Japan... completely unheard of and Australia's manufacturing industry at the time (and I am speaking of the mid to late eighties) actually grew for the first time in generations.ALL side of politics and practically all economists agree that that reduction of tariffs that Australia was at the forefront in promoting internationally was of great benefit for the importing and exporting countries involved. As for our manufacturing industries going overseas? Not the result of the reduction in tariffs I'm afraid. Rather a direct result of China deciding to get a piece of the Capitalist action which essentially occurred afterwards and not as a result of the tariff reductions. Also China IS introducing a form of Carbon Tax that is to be trialled in two of their provinces in the next few years with the view to covering all of China. As for the cynical view that the Govt is predicting a low impact on inflation...... that is based on modelling by Treasury and not some figure that has been made up by the Govt (or by Al Gore and his mates.....really??). Lastly. Income tax rates going up? What have you been reading? Kind of conveniently overlooking the fact that the tax free theshold is going up to $18,400 from its current level of $6000 aren't you? Sure the mariginal rates of 15% and 30% are rising but the overall tax paid in $'s is considerably less for the majority of tax payers and will lead to an extra 1 million Australians paying no income tax at all (or is that just a rubbery figure as well?). A great and lasting economic reform.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'unusualsearch' Strange place to be discussing this topic but what the hell.... It is estmated the Carbon Tax will add about 0.7% to the inflation rate. Hardly a great impost. As for what Australia does will make little or no difference to the world as a whole then the answer to that is quite simple. By contributing to the abatement of carbon emissions we, as a country, are then in a position to argue that other BIG polluters pull their weight. If we shrug our shouders and do nothing then we give up any moral imperative we have. And for those that think that that stance doesn't work then I would suggest you have forgotten some of the lessons of the eigthies economic reforms whereby Australia (through the Cairns Group) lead the world to the view that lowering tariffs and import restriction would be good for all economies (the so called level playing field). Much maligned at the time but it worked. Look thanks for this I thought I had stumbled across a liberal party convention and some of the people I respect had started to channel the spirit of Alan Jones or Ray hadley ......Piers Ackerman .........(Continue list of scared old men).I am really very happy to pay for this ! VERY ! Yes I get the fact that the big polluters will pass this onto me YUP get it ! I am also sure that as any business would do they will also search for ways to limit thier exposure to this as a way forward. They will not just pass it on they are gready bugger and will look to save thier money (so would I but hell I am a one hit wonder rock star what would I know ?) .At times you need to take a lead. Not follow. The GST is also not fixed bTW. Just as a reminder the last government was a delightfully high taxing government. Strangely enough we now have a significant shortage of infastructure. So our kids have had crappy schools and our hospitals are shocking but heck look at the budget ! woot woot we have so much in the bank ............ great if your a family not so important (all the time) if you are a country. .Yes yes there are holes in every arguement , including yours btw ........ But to say there is only one side is irresponsible. . I wanna have some sassy fun friday night I have a taste for it ....... anyone else wanna some ........or do you want to come chat to me about the carbon tax I will be at couple club come say I love old men in suits ......I will know what you mean.. Brae OK for those that ask I am in that bracket where it hurts as well. Yes that one.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Shhhhhhhhh don't tell but there is a rumour leaking that Julia is about to start taxing the orgasm. Biatch...like she will have to pay a cent? Hell no... | ...but at least it's on the honour system.
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RHP User
14 years ago
The U.S. Congress sets a federal budget every year in the trillions of dollars. Few of us care what the US spend is let alone how much money that is so, let"s create a breakdown of their federal spending in simple terms. First, here is the 2011 Federal Budget:|U.S. income: $2,170,000,000,000Federal budget: $3,820,000,000,000New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000National debt: $14,271,000,000,000Recent budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000 (about 1 percent of the budget)|Now let's take a the Jones family...these figures are low but you will get the idea so we can relate. Let's remove eight zeros from these numbers and pretend this is the household budget for the fictitious Jones family.|Total annual income for the Jones family: $21,700Amount of money the Jones family spent: $38,200 Amount of new debt added to the credit card: $16,500 Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710Amount cut from the budget: $385|So in effect last month Congress or in this example the Jones family, sat down at the kitchen table and agreed to cut $385 from its annual budget. What family would cut $385 of spending in order to solve $16,500 in deficit spending? Stupidity...even if Krudd or someone like him gives you a free TV.|Now after years of this, the Jones family has $142,710 of debt on its credit card which is the equivalent of the national debt...you would think the Jones family would recognize and address this situation. Neither did the US Congress and folks, we ain't far behind The last one here to even talk about a balanced budget was Abbott's friend Mr. Costello...but that comedienne never talked about the national debt...that was always the punchline along with the rolling average personal credit card debt we carry here. Google it...but wait until you have quad scotch nearby. | The numbers are only different based on a smaller demographic. Hey Julia...let's not step up to the plate and take the lead. The root of the debt problem is that the voters typically do not send people to government to save money. Could we at least spend it wisely and not tax us out of the ability to watch that TV your pal bought us before he retired?|To effect budget change, we need to change the job description. It is awfully hard (but not impossible) to reverse course and tell the government to stop borrowing money from the next three or four generations and spending it now. Maybe things like all of our major banks should be put under a Public Utilities Act and whilst allowed to make a profit...should not be amongst the most profitable businesses in the country. Hey, maybe even our public utilities should be caught up under a similar act....the government is making a fortune on that and just added another tax. | I just hope the headstone on the grave of the last several generations isn't a target for vandalism...I would be hard pressed to think it would be a crime to paint "These assholes buried us so deep in debt that we will never see daylight again". | The end.
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RHP User
14 years ago
OK Mr Midnight What you say is so very true, USA is the only country in the world that increases their debt and simply just prints more money, they are refusing to live within their means and unfortunately this will impact on everyone. That was a clever move removing the link between Gold and the $US.....LOL A seminar I recently attended suggested , we may be witnessing the end of capitalism, Just put our heads between our knees and kiss our arse goodbye! But short the market on the way down...there are opportunities everywhere. On the carbon credits, these will be traded just like shares etc...So there is a opportunity to make money from the carbon tax.....right or wrong it don't matter, I have no control over it but I will capitalise on it if there is a opportunity! Are two - three generations ahead of us really going to pay our debts......I don't think so. Long ago I realised the biggest impact on our lives is decisions we make ourselves to increase our wealth ourselves, looking at what governments do and their policies has very little impact on me and I have very little impact on government policy, its only a passing interest, unless a opportunity presents itself!
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RHP User
14 years ago
This is the last last one...probably futile and boring as bat shit but maybe someone else will read it. Let's start with your premise...| Quoting 'justenough' OK Mr Midnight...Long ago I realised the biggest impact on our lives is decisions we make ourselves to increase our wealth ourselves, looking at what governments do and their policies has very little impact on me and I have very little impact on government policy, its only a passing interest, unless a opportunity presents itself! | Perfect, now let's rock-n-roll...you can name the song after I write, but the tune is one we are all singing together like it or not.|First of all, you referenced the $US decoupling away from the gold standard...the system currently used in the U.S. is a fiat currency system agreed upon in 1944 at the Breton Woods international conference, which allows the dollar and other currencies to adjust based on the demand and market value of goods and services. While a linked dollar as a bearer note served it's purpose...it was also too inflexible to be the mercantile currency of the world. Therein lies difference number one...please do name any other mercantile currency used globally, albeit the Euro that was engineered by the Germans for their benefit gave it a go I think the folks in Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain might argue the point with you now. |A study of 775 fiat currencies indicates that there is no historical precedence for a fiat currency succeeding in holding its value. Twenty percent failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation approaching one of the other outcomes. The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years, with the shortest life span being one month. The British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence and at after over 300 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency however...success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver so it's worth today is less than 0.5% of its original value and the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.|Now here is another interesting anecdote...there are no non-fiat currencies technically, however the $US enjoys quasi-fiat status because it is the worldwide reserve currency due to petroleum transactions being denominated in dollars. Why is it worth anything at all...simple, because the United States government says so. As painful as it is to accept, currency that only has value because it is recognized by it's issuing government and the rest of the world that uses it to trade. I believe Switzerland was the last country to switch over to the fiat system and if memory serves perhaps as recently as only about 10 years ago or so. Have a look...and I am sure you will post in here if I am wrong. Given the undeniable track record of currencies it is clear that on a long enough time-line the survival rate of all fiat currencies drops to zero. |Let's finish this thesis up with a couple of looks in a bit closer to home. Ever hear of a company called Babcock & Brown? They were referred to as the "mini-Macquarie" however due primarily to the sophistication and short selling of a few conglomerate Hedge Fund managers overseas...and in 2007 it's market capitalization peaked at above $AU9.1 billion. However, by October 2008 the share price had collapsed by 96% and by December 2008 by 99.6%. If you are going to play in that space...you better be fast and highly skilled, or better still run a scheme like Opes Prime and leave everyone holding the bag in what can only be deemed as an illegal short selling scheme. |That's about the time the government stepped in and banned short selling...that is, they set a policy in a time of crisis. Damn you better be fast...and yes, the government policy effected all investors large and small alike. |Now about arrogance in the debt-laden markets...how long did it take Centro to tip after taking a view that they were going to be treated any differently albeit had a chance to renew their debt prior to the credit crunch. What even drove that sector of the market...LPTs to take the lead as the top performing sector on an incredible rise before the fall was simple. Greed and arrogance....the nemesis of any investor, even Warren Buffet when he refuses to listen to his own advice. |Best of luck to you though...it's a storm out there and the clouds on the horizon are dark. We are all in this together now and until the markets and the world figure out how to decouple...we will simply have to learn how navigate more clearly in the uncertain time ahead.|Now..........the end.
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RHP User
14 years ago
This is only a tax...there is no "carbon credit" trading system to be had at this time.Wait for it, maybe in this decade and only after it clears the regulators both here and O/S and is suitable to float on the ASX. I do author and deliver a number of ASIC approved and APRA compliant seminars...and for many of the companies in the diversified financial sectors. We were really busy when this regime decided to fuck up super. Maybe that should go on the whinge thread? | Now...I be gone.
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RHP User
14 years ago
On trading Carbon credits, Is kind of done now a few months ago when we looked at solar panels on our roof we would be issued with carbon credits, that we then sold to subsidise the installation. Goggle Trading carbon credits my hunch is it is going to happen and who says we are going trade it on the ASX anyway? NYSE, CME, CBOT etc? Like we trade commodities now with futures contracts etc to get viable volume. Shorting, well it was never really banned you know the govt tried for 3-4 months a couple years ago. You could always short if you owned shares to hedge, but no one did any checks to see if you really did....get the drift? The CFD providers never stopped accepting short orders...well maybe for 2 hours while they got legal advise. Then business as usual. Lets just say I have smile with the opportunities that have presented themselves over the past couple of weeks. We find the present times exciting
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RHP User
14 years ago
Thanks CM, I'm trying to follow you but really think a more personal training session would be appropriate, like in your log cabin ;)Ahhh to capitalise on being a capitalist! Justenough I hope you are loving these times as yes there is always great opportunity to capitalise on another's misfortunes and the worse they are the better the pickings so you should be getting happier and happier as time rolls on over the next few years me thinks!
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RHP User
14 years ago
As we see it , if you pollute you pay for it , we have no problem with that at all , Stalky makes some very good statements on the subject . I'd hate to be in the situation where our children wake up to a green sky instead of a blue one because we were to frightened and beholden to big business to do something about it now
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Charles_Dickens' Will some one please give Julia a Robin Hood suit..?? We heard she was voted the second most sexiest woman in ...........
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'puppy'Thanks CM, I'm trying to follow you but really think a more personal training session would be appropriate, like in your log cabin ;) Ahhh to capitalise on being a capitalist! Justenough I hope you are loving these times as yes there is always great opportunity to capitalise on another's misfortunes and the worse they are the better the pickings so you should be getting happier and happier as time rolls on over the next few years me thinks! Save and work for what you want, Our generation did we did not borrow so we could have it all without working for it. Finally "Always look on the bright side of life"
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'stalky' lolz Puppy. If you're right, then that's a long way from transparent governing.The way I see it, the tax is so effing stupid there MUST be a hidden agenda... and all the pamphlets dropped in my mailbox at home tells me that the government is desperate to keep the reasons from us plebs. How can CO2 be a pollutant when all life on earth is ultimately derived from it? My hat goes off to these people with their ingenuity and gall (or should that be Gore) to even believe they could fool most of humanity. As an aside, they even threw in farting cows as a destroyer of the planet, and now NZ has a farting cow tax - they must really be laughing at that one. Hands up anybody who seriously believe that farting bovines are a threat to the planet!! There is absolutely no credible evidence to say that human induced CO2 has any bearing whatsoever on global temperatures. The reason the terminology was changed from "global warming" to "climate change", was that from 1995 to around 2005 there was actually global cooling, this obviously didn't fit with their requirement, so they decided to change the terminology. The fact of the matter is we could double CO2 content without it duly affecting global temperature. Both air temperatures and ocean levels have been far higher than today, way before humans even existed on the planet.I do think we cold reduce our carbon footprint none the less, but all this is perpetuated by: 1) Scientists, who have made a living researching this, and if they come up with the conclusion "All is fine and there is nothing to worry about" - will quickly find themselves out of a job.2) If they don't actually know they'll err on the side of caution.... and lets face it these very same scientists cannot accurately predict what the temperature is going to be next Tuesday, so how are they possibly going to predict a 2 degree change in the next 100 years.... (And by the way, a 2 degrees warming is something this planet has experienced before now without our carbon emissions). 3) The media - who is only interested in perpetuating fear, and like the scientist, what's there to report if all is hunky dory. It really is clever of these people going after the politicians as they are the people in control, and unfortunately, the most gullible of society.Plus the tax does NOTHING to reduce carbon emissions. Hands up anyone who thinks that charging me extra on my electricity bill will reduce the carbon emissions of the planet? In any case, the greatest ozone gas is water vapour... representing 99%.. until science works out how it really works, speculating that a carbon tax will save the planet is just plain dumb.HugsStalky The Planet is Fine....The People are F@#$ED.....!
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RHP User
14 years ago
You know I will always have room there for you and MrsP... | Quoting 'puppy'Thanks CM, I'm trying to follow you but really think a more personal training session would be appropriate, like in your log cabin ;) | ...and she can even sleep indoors with the big dog. | Wonder how all the high fliers went today trading non-existent carbon tax credits on Google and short selling ahead of the electronic crossovers that tore the ass out of the markets today before it opened? Never think that you are bigger than you are...Oz is less than 1.6% of the entire global markets. | We're all driving a fiat...and mine went gold today. | | Buy low...sell high. You never go broke making money.
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RHP User
14 years ago
just putting my two bobs worth in. 1) carbon tax (or cleverly hidden mining tax) tax on big companies, Yes, However basic economics (and common sense) tells us that these costs will be passed on. So point one is don't think we as ordinary joe's wont be paying for it. 2) inorder to combat problem one, government spending half of tax made on giving back to the Australian people, problem is this can never be equal or fair given everyone will spend in different ways, plus with the effect this will have on our economy, this will be rendered usless. 3) this tax doesn't give companies incentive to spot polluting at all, given point 1), they will just pass the buck to us. 4) Australia's pollution as a percentage of the world is absolutely minute. Last point i'd like to make, just research what has happened to Scotland since they adopted a "green" tax!!!, have we thought this through polly's or is this just Australia being over politically correct again!
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RHP User
14 years ago
A largely useless money grab and policy rodeo aimed at appeasing uneducated greenies who think Australia emits even a drops worth of emissions in the global greenhouse ocean. Typical far left garbage.
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RHP User
14 years ago
ChasingMidnight is it true??? the main offenders the " Transport Industry" isn't been charged this Tax???
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RHP User
14 years ago
lolz... since this thread started Ive been studying up on my taoism.Here's something even you might not have known.... A man influenced by woody qi will be more upwardly mobile when watery qi enhances his woody qi.This clearly and in no uncertain terms explains my weird attraction towards men dripping in sweat.HugsStalky Quoting 'puppy' Thanks CM, I'm trying to follow you but really think a more personal training session would be appropriate, like in your log cabin ;)Ahhh to capitalise on being a capitalist! Justenough I hope you are loving these times as yes there is always great opportunity to capitalise on another's misfortunes and the worse they are the better the pickings so you should be getting happier and happier as time rolls on over the next few years me thinks!
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RHP User
14 years ago
Don't forget the levy on super, Stalky...that's all supposed to be going to help pay the debt on the Queensland floods. You might owe Julia a big kiss or a night on the town... | ...that's enough to make anyone's butt sweat.
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tamworthguy46
14 years ago
Yeah shure, Australia has a high carbon consumption for the population of our country, but that is their only argument, one point that never gets discussed is, That carbon is absorbed by trees and plants, And Australia from it's sheer size, by relation to it's population, easily takes care of it's own carbon, Whereas places like India have no chance of taking care of their own carbon naturally, A carbon tax unless it is adopted globaly, will place that county taking part in it, at a distinct dissavantage ! The greens a hellbent on getting this policy through, because that is what they stand for, and it seems to me that they just want to make a political statement, to be seen a pioneers in reduction of emissions. Whilst not taking into account the cost to Australia. I have said all allong, that the political leaders in countries like India and China, must be falling off their chairs laughing at us !!!!!
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RHP User
14 years ago
Getting back to the essence of your question. The short answer is no. The financial impact on the general consumer should be close to zero, depending on individual circumstances of course. The idea is to impose a levy on the biggest carbon dioxide emitting companies in the country. Electricity generation is a major polluter. These companies will more than likely pass this "small increase" in production costs onto the consumers of their product. This in turn will mean that other companies, that are exempt from the tax, may also have increased costs and will pass those on as well. The government is well aware of this and have therefore also implemented a compensation package for end consumers to offset the price rises. These are paid for by the tax.So, in theory at least, it will cost you more but you will have more income to spend. It should be noted that rises are expected to be around 1% and that not everything will rise in price. This depends somewhat on the honesty of the particular supplier and the gov have given powers to the ACCC to punish companies who try to exploit the situation by artificially raising prices under the guise of carbon tax costs. How effective that will be is anyone's guess. The vision is to price high carbon pollution products out of the market and have them replaced with low emitting ones. An example may be that if you have a choice between coal generated electricity, at $400 a quarter, or solar generated, at $100 a quarter, you will probably choose the lower, thus reducing pollution. There are incentive and investments for companies to come up with new low emission processes and products. These are paid for by the carbon tax. If it all works properly it will be a winner for all of us, our kids and the planet.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Airlines, freight, rail and shipping companies will be hit under Labor's carbon tax package despite the government exempting fuel from the policy. |The tax policy documents revealed that the government will increase the fuel excise rebates for some businesses, creating an effective carbon tax while households, farmers and tradesmen will be spared pain at the bowser.|Heavy users of road transport were granted a three-year reprieve from higher charges but will be hit with the fuel tax credit reductions by July 1, 2014.|The exemption was a sticking point in the Multi-Party Climate Change Committee negotiations after independent Tony Windsor argued that large trucking companies should not have to pay the effective tax.|The credit reductions will not be applied to agriculture, fisheries and forestry industries. So much for a fair tax without impact to consumers.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Like lemmings over a cliff... Global warming doesn't exist! It's called a cycle. Sometimes it's warmer, sometimes it's cooler. It's a disgraceful tax grab from an increasingly socialist government. Mind you, the mad monk won't rescind the law once he gets his grubby little hands on the coffers. He will just think of all that money...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Very topical and good to see some debate about this issue. It's clear from briefly reading some of the above comments that some of us need to brush up on our scientific knowledge. A good start is the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (they're currently working on the Fifth Assessment). This report involved thousands of authors from dozens of countries and is the largest and most detailed summary of the climate change situation ever undertaken. If you can't be bothered reading it, in a nutshell:"Warming of the climate system is unequivocal.""Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."Of course we don't want our daily expenses to increase. It's already expensive to live in Australia as it is. However, slight increases now are a small price to pay when you think of the final goal. The current carbon tax is not perfect. I doubt any future attempts ever will. However, it's a step in the right direction and it's a fantastic opportunity for Australians to be world leaders with what is sure to be an inevitable green revolution.
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RHP User
14 years ago
STICK THE CARBON TAX,PRIME MINISTER BOB BROWN,and get ur hand out of Julias ass while u r at it, LABOUR/GREENS ARE FUCKING AUSTRALIA.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Here are some facts that will show how ridiculousthis financial madness is that the government isfollowing. Do the simple maths and see foryourselves.According to the 'believers' the CO2 in air hasrisen from .034% to .038% in air over the last50 years.To put the percentage of Carbon Dioxide in air ina clearer perspective;If you had a room 12 ft x 12 ft x 7 ft or 3.7 mtrs x3.7 mtrs x 2.1 mtrs, the area carbon dioxide wouldoccupy in that room would be .25m x ..25m x ..17mor the size of a large packet of cereal.Australia emits 1% of the world's total carbonDioxide and the government wants to reducethis by 20%t or reduce emissions by 0.2 % ofthe world's total CO2 emissions.What effect will this have on existing CO2 levels?By their own figures they state the CO2 in air hasrisen from .034% to .038% in 50 years.Assuming this is correct, the world CO2 has increased |in 50 years by ..004%.Per year that is .004 divided by 50 = ...00008%. (Getting confusing -but stay with me).Of that because we only contribute 1% our emissions would cause CO2 to rise .00008 divided by 100 = ..0000008%.Of that 1%, we supposedly emit, the governmentswants to reduce it by 20% which is 1/5th of .0000008 = ..00000016% effect per year they would have onthe world CO2 emissions based on their own figures.That would equate to an area in the same room, asthe size of a small pin.For that they have gone crazy with the ridiculous trading schemes, Solar and Roofing Installations, Clean Coal Technology. Renewable Energy, etc, etc.How ridiculous it that? The cost to the general public and industry will be enormous - cripple and even closing some smaller businesses.
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RHP User
14 years ago
To discourage the use of products the emit carbon and so on, encourage us to us products that don't emit carbon etc. To achieve that, put in place schemes that make it affordable to use those products, like solar panels as a simple example.Other I like everyone else will simply adjust our budgets and pay the additional costs.Hmmm sounds like the liberal party view on these matters.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Just looking at all the previous comments and yes we did make a comment on this subject, but we really dont think this is not the correct forum to be raising this issue , Redhotpie is about meeting people and having fun , not arguing or commenting about Government policy - right or wrong
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tamworthguy46
14 years ago
Quoting 'william0007'Just looking at all the previous comments and yes we did make a comment on this subject, but we really dont think this is not the correct forum to be raising this issue , Redhotpie is about meeting people and having fun , not arguing or commenting about Government policy - right or wrong REPLY....Yes that is all well and good......But some of us are looking for sex partners with strong political views, so you have something to Talk/ Argue about when your not having sex.......That's not even counting the MAKE UP SEX ?......ummmn LOL
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'william0007' Just looking at all the previous comments and yes we did make a comment on this subject, but we really dont think this is not the correct forum to be raising this issue , Redhotpie is about meeting people and having fun , not arguing or commenting about Government policy - right or wrongJust because it's a sex and social site, I didn't think it was actually against the rule book - discussion of current affairs. I hate to think how dry life would be if it consisted of only one facet.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I just want to know where to leave the census form ????? Hope this stops all the long winded bs above omg! xxx
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RHP User
14 years ago
Well I work in this indrustrial area.mining. Has ever some one thought who groaned the most in paying billions of $$ back to the government? well back to Australia??.. Well to let you know. most of our own dirt is leaving Australia.. We as Australian's do not own most of the mining lands < like NZ raped for the trees in the north Island by the japs..> Since a billion dollars is traded each week very low tax was put on many years ago....- but we still dont own the land!- even in our own country.. mmm we sold out..so its the only chance to get some $$ back on our dirt and gas leaving the country..Now as for the workers..very hard to get into the mining but if you come from the country that owns the lease in Auz. ur in.. Any way.. nice tits and I like a headjob.. well beer first < I had to throw so sex in, other wise its not cricket>,,..
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RHP User
14 years ago
Yes, do a comparison per capita and we use much more than china or India... do a comparison per square km and we are causing bee fart.I have no idea why we choose to use a per capita basis, really. Who makes that shit up?HugsStalky Quoting 'tamworthguy38' Yeah shure, Australia has a high carbon consumption for the population of our country, but that is their only argument, one point that never gets discussed is, That carbon is absorbed by trees and plants, And Australia from it's sheer size, by relation to it's population, easily takes care of it's own carbon, Whereas places like India have no chance of taking care of their own carbon naturally, A carbon tax unless it is adopted globaly, will place that county taking part in it, at a distinct dissavantage ! The greens a hellbent on getting this policy through, because that is what they stand for, and it seems to me that they just want to make a political statement, to be seen a pioneers in reduction of emissions. Whilst not taking into account the cost to Australia. I have said all allong, that the political leaders in countries like India and China, must be falling off their chairs laughing at us !!!!! Global warming.. they dont call it that any more on account of the fact that the last 10 years have been cooler and that bunch of scientists you talk about have been retracting their reports left and right... and now another report... really I am not surprised. They have no idea what causes it... and they know that most greenhouse gas is water vapour but they havent found the correlation.... what they fail to appreciate is that it's going to happen, they can't stop it no matter what the hell we do... there are simply too many people and that's teh end of that.HugsStalkyQuoting 'MrDifferent' Very topical and good to see some debate about this issue. It's clear from briefly reading some of the above comments that some of us need to brush up on our scientific knowledge. A good start is the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (they're currently working on the Fifth Assessment). This report involved thousands of authors from dozens of countries and is the largest and most detailed summary of the climate change situation ever undertaken. If you can't be bothered reading it, in a nutshell:"Warming of the climate system is unequivocal.""Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."
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RHP User
14 years ago
...my humble apologies for interrupting your fantasies or occupying your airspace. | Quoting 'william0007'Redhotpie is about meeting people and having fun , not arguing or commenting about Government policy - right or wrong Quoting 'BlackStilettoes' I just want to know where to leave the census form ????? Hope this stops all the long winded bs above omg! Just a question though...if it was indeed that disconcerting, why bother to post at all? | Reality does indeed seem mundane at times.
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RHP User
14 years ago
The question is not who is right or wrong, The real question is Will the Australian carbon tax make any difference. I am sure everyone knows the answer (including the hardcore, die-hard earthlovers)Some bullet points to chew on:- The sun grows brighter (and hotter) by 10% every 1.1 billion years, it is a no-brainer that no amount of tax will change that- The combined effect of cyclical changes in the eccentricity of the Erth's orbit and the precession of Earth's axis have been correlated to the cycles between warm epochs and ice ages. At the present time the earth is approaching the peak of the warm period.- CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but: it only contributes 26% to the greenhouse effect. It is second to.... guess what: water vapor. - The water vapor is the largest greenhouse contributor at a whooping 72%. Are we taxing the right thing?- The Australian economy is only 1.7% of the world, emitting 1.32% of the world's greenhouse gasses. - The economy of China is second to US and is the largest polluter at 23% of the global emissions. I can't wait to see how our tax will change that.... not.I finish with this: Will you still feel good about the planet, when in 1 year time, the local taxes render the Australian exports (as small as they are) uncompetitive on the international markets. Will you still feel good when the company where you work closes down? Will you still feel good when the cost of this tax gets passed on back to you?Well it is not going to be that bad. China and US are not going not lift a finger about the global warming, so you can continue buying cheap Chinese goods at KMART Bunnings, BigW, while having the warm fussy feeling that Australia has done some good for the environment.
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RHP User
14 years ago
True, I do like the forum because I'm basically free to say anything that doesnt vilify other users, and usually about sexy things, but this is my community too, and carbon tax is on my mind, although I didnt raise the issue. So if you dont mind, I know it's distressing talking about "real" life when many of us basically do what we do here and at events as a bit of escape, but a thread here and there keeps it real. Even if we are talking crap, it's still passionate crap.HUgsS Quoting 'william0007' Just looking at all the previous comments and yes we did make a comment on this subject, but we really dont think this is not the correct forum to be raising this issue , Redhotpie is about meeting people and having fun , not arguing or commenting about Government policy - right or wrong
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sorry, but in response to MERWETHER's comments, how can you possibly say that the consumer will not be impacted by this tax!!! please look at scottland as a perfect example!!!
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RHP User
14 years ago
You know.. young people these days ( :p ) have no respect for each other, or other people's stuff... they have no sense of loyalty ... they don;t save for anything, don't plan for anything.. drink and party like there's no tomorrow... and just live for today... yet they're all greenies... but they're into societal anarchy. I blame schools and governments for teaching them that our generation and the one or two before us stuffed up the environment. There. I've said it. My transformation into dirty old bastard is almost complete. No seriously, what would you do if you were 20 something.... used to be at 20 a person could change the world. And you wonder how it is possible that London is burning?Root for the next 100 years. That's the only solution people. Put all this ill feeling aside and go with exploring the sensual, the wet, the firm and the sticky, the gooey.. the wobbly.. the juicy, the smelly... sensual. Life resides back to the basics of breathing and feeling. Get your chi for free.HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
I not really sure sex and taxes go together but as it is here I will comment. There is a lot of criticism of the Carbon Tax and someone even mentioned the flood Levies. There were levies imposed under the Howard Government and one was the gun buy back and from memory there were 2 or 3 other levies. It would seem the proposed Carbon Tax is to be introduced to encourage the big polluters to find alternative energy sources. What we do not seem to be hearing is how any alternative proposal from the Liberals would work, All we hear from them is Geat Big Tax. The Liberals have said they would take action with regard to Greenhouses gases and what little information they give out seems to indicate they will pay the big polluters to reduce emmission. If they are going to pay them then that will also involve taxes which you will all pay. Before we ca make any comparism we need to know what we are comparing and I do not think we have been told that. Maybe generators powered by bed rocking would be a good idea.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Yes fuschiablue, i agree with all the comment that you have made as well...
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RHP User
14 years ago
we cant consider the fact that you might meet someone from this site and want to talk about tax and politics, and maybe religion - come on Tamworthguy 38 give us a break , those subjects are the ultimate good time destroyer
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RHP User
14 years ago
conbrio
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RHP User
14 years ago
Dear Fellow Concerned Australians, As you know, the Gillard socialists in Canberra are going to WASTE $4,000,000.00 ( FOUR MILLION DOLLARS) sending all of us a "sales brochure" pitching a Carbon Tax at us that nobody wants. This represents a brilliant, takes-no-time-at-all opportunity for us to stand united as one and send her the most powerful message possible. Just send the brochure back to her! If it was posted to you (with the Canberra address on it), then just write "Return to Sender" and drop it in the post box. If it is a 'letter-box' drop (like the shopping brochures) with no stamp on it, then put it in an envelope, stick on a stamp and mail it to: Greg Combet, M.P. House of RepresentativesParliament HouseCanberra ACT 2600 (G'wan - write the address on an envelope right now, so it's all ready to go when you receive their lying brochure) Please do this. If we all do this - and you know we darn sure will - there is a strong possibility that it will be the final straw and the idiots in Canberra will.... (a) back off on this Carbon Tax and (B) sack Julia Gillard. I wish I could claim credit for this brilliant idea, but the kudos must go to John Izzard, who wrote the article, "Return to Sender" at http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/qed/2011/07/return-to-sender We ALL have gotta do this! It's just too good an opportunity to speak with one voice... ...for Australia's sake! If you happen to open it just seal it up and put UNSOLICITED MAIL above the return to sender
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RHP User
14 years ago
Well CM, you must also be bored as to bother or wasting your valuable air space to pick on my comment and William0007 comment!!! Just typical!!! xxx Stalky I hear you!! Everyone is entitled to their say... xxx
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RHP User
14 years ago
Thanks Con. That basically says it all really. Why not tax the exports as well. It's a no brainer. Maybe Bob Brown wants to live in a hole in the ground. There'll be plenty to choose from.HugsStalky Quoting 'conbrio' The question is not who is right or wrong, The real question is Will the Australian carbon tax make any difference. I am sure everyone knows the answer (including the hardcore, die-hard earthlovers)Some bullet points to chew on:- The sun grows brighter (and hotter) by 10% every 1.1 billion years, it is a no-brainer that no amount of tax will change that- The combined effect of cyclical changes in the eccentricity of the Erth's orbit and the precession of Earth's axis have been correlated to the cycles between warm epochs and ice ages. At the present time the earth is approaching the peak of the warm period.- CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but: it only contributes 26% to the greenhouse effect. It is second to.... guess what: water vapor. - The water vapor is the largest greenhouse contributor at a whooping 72%. Are we taxing the right thing?- The Australian economy is only 1.7% of the world, emitting 1.32% of the world's greenhouse gasses. - The economy of China is second to US and is the largest polluter at 23% of the global emissions. I can't wait to see how our tax will change that.... not.I finish with this: Will you still feel good about the planet, when in 1 year time, the local taxes render the Australian exports (as small as they are) uncompetitive on the international markets. Will you still feel good when the company where you work closes down? Will you still feel good when the cost of this tax gets passed on back to you?Well it is not going to be that bad. China and US are not going not lift a finger about the global warming, so you can continue buying cheap Chinese goods at KMART Bunnings, BigW, while having the warm fussy feeling that Australia has done some good for the environment.
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