M63
Bashing blue..
October 29 2012
Comments
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RHP User
13 years ago
I see the end results in prison, they are very meek and mild in there, cause there is consequences of thumping an officer. I think that any person in uniform should be respected for having the balls , and that’s including women to go and help the community. When someone comes to help you after you are being thumped or what ever, a person would hope that at least you will be safe with a uniform around. Its more a symbol of community values. What we expect from our police and what we expect others to do when they see a cop. Not all people get a clue when an officer tries to calm them down, but most do. The most dangerous ones are the ones that say, oh ok officer I will go meekly to the car, then do the jack rabbit or the lash out. That is why you see them cuff a person that seems to be behaving ok. I think that the sentencing is lame anyway, but the jails are full and they are triple bunking. the problem has to be sorted at schools at home etc. The people I see in jail have big problems, like mental health undiagnosed, families that are fucked up, and the big one Literacy and lack of employment skills. Most of the twits that bash a police officer should be put in the stock pants down, bum whipped and fruit thrown at them. Especially the super brave ones that hit a woman. In or out of uniform. If drugs were not behind most of the crime our prisons would be 90 percent empty. The night life in Perth is a major issue, the guys with money get drugged up then hit the pubs. Speed does not make a pleasant person when its mixed with booze. My daughter and her friends are not going out in North bridge any more to dangerous, and yet they had no problem living in London and going out all over the place, taking trains alone at night etc. CCTV helps but there is a culture in Perth of bash everything you do not like. I want to know that when someone sees a blue uniform coming their way they will at least THINK! Its a hard job to go to work as a cop and not know if your going to make that shift safe. Unlike us paper pushers who the most dangers thing we can get is a paper cut. Hell yeah they should have strong penalises for hitting a cop.
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RHP User
13 years ago
In just once instance I was happy to have the police authority available to sort out a problem. I had to have a boarder evicted from my house. Once the police arrived he became very co-operative. I'm glad they were there to help. I felt safe and no one was hurt. The situation could have ended badly if the police officers didn't have an intimidating affect on the trouble maker. It's not a matter of the police, as individuals, being more important than the rest of the community. More over its recognition that they are there to help, protect and save those in need. If police aren't protected then there will be less joining the force. It is already a problem with large numbers leaving due to the violence they experience (amongst other reasons). Who will the community turn to for help? Would you condone the resulting Anarchy? BTW there are the good and bad in every profession (yes, including the police). I'm certainly not blind to that. The majority of police are decent people providing a service to the community which is paid for by the community. The problem is that dangerous behaviour as a result of drugs, alcohol, lack of parental guidance, dysfunction families, domestic violence, mental health problems, etc. have lead to an increase in disrespect toward authority figures and toward other members of the general public, (eg. those cowards who choose to king hit innocent bystanders for fun! 1 of my boarders was king hit twice in the same evening at 2 different venues, luckily he escaped serious injury). I agree that the perpetrators of violence may not think about it while they are intoxicated and assaulting a police officer but the increased penalties/jail time will hopefully make them think twice about doing it again, once they have sobered up. We need to protect our public officers while they protect us. OK off my soap box now, Be safe everyone. SFxx
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RHP User
13 years ago
You're Gunna start a post about our men and women in blue?? I thought more of you LRE.....my cousin is a copper, she was one of the first to Port Arthur after that idiot shot it up. Now you're saying if a woman that brave gets beaten up by some drunken moron that's totally fine?? I have soooo many things to say to you LRE but I'm a lady and I'll just clench my teeth for once and go cook tea. Roxxy
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RHP User
13 years ago
is that we have some choice over where we choose to congregate,police officers don't.Do you or I put ourselves in harms way as often, or in what are sometimes volatile and potentially dangerous situations.? I am not a huge fan of authority but when I needed help with a problem similar to Sensory's the police came straight away. They were helpfull and curteous and when I thanked them they laughed and said that compared to what they usually had to deal with it was a nice change.So yes I think penalties for hitting an officer should be greater than a penalty for hitting me...simple. x R
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RHP User
13 years ago
I totally agree that incararation isn't the answer to fixing a communities problems,I think that community service in a unit for people who have sustained brain injuries through being bashed or overdosing on drugs for instance makes more sense than spending years in a prison system that rehabiltates few and that creates yet more problems when people leave prison.I don't know what the figures are but I imagine that many people reoffend and the cycle continues. I grew up in a housing comission estate in Melbourne and all the boys in my street spent at least a few years in prison.Stealing cars was just a recreational pursuit and going to university or any other educational institution was not a part of anyone's conciousness.Education may not be the total answer but it sure helps.I do know, as TR said that our prisons are full of the poor ,the illiterate,the mentally ill and the angry....unless of course you are Allan Bond .x R
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RHP User
13 years ago
Teachers have no control over thier students. What can they do? Bring back the cane I say. If there were consequences other than ringing the childs parents then maybe the little darlings may think a little before acting out at school. Not only that but the teaching profession has become a little bit of a joke....sorry to all the teachers out there trying to make a difference. Yes I do have a degree in education plus a child at school and do know what I am on about. The prison systems are overworked, overcrowded and clearly incarceration as a punishment is just not working. Maybe it is time that the justice system made the punishment fit the crime. Public humiliation comes to mind... One wonders what the next generation will bring to the table. They are already being dubbed Generation Wasted. You only have to venture out after dark , check out all the nasty teen hangouts to understand why. Last week I was checking my local streets for a run away 15 year old after dark. I live in a nice little rural community.....during sunlight hours. People need to realise that a parent is still legally allowed to smack thier child...and then do so.....without fear of that child ringing child services or someone else ringing child services on them. Fair game to bash a police officer? I think not. You have a greater chance of being shot in the line of duty becoming an officer of the law than you do joining the army. I grew up in NZ where the police never carried guns, they did not have tasers, pepper spray and managed to keep the peace just fine...most of the time. However society today is a totally different kettle of fish than it was 30 odd years ago. Personally I think there is too many soft options, too much training to difuse things peaceably, too many times we reach for counselling and excuses for poor behaviour....time to get a little reality on the situation and become tougher.
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Smilingwithfun
13 years ago
Agree with tuscan's theme that the uniform is a symbol of our community. Its the uniform they are hitting which is wrong.Its our symbol as a community of the Law.If they bash it ,they bash us. Can't happen as we need Law & Order to all live as a society.
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luvsilver
13 years ago
I like your work Red Engine but i think you missed the mark this time. I think the lack of respect that our police officers are shown by some of the public is disgusting.It is getting worse with each generation and if we as a whole can't respect the police we are eating away at our community foundations. Mr Luvsilver
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'Freya13' is that we have some choice over where we choose to congregate,police officers don't.Do you or I put ourselves in harms way as often, or in what are sometimes volatile and potentially dangerous situations.? I am not a huge fan of authority but when I needed help with a problem similar to Sensory's the police came straight away. They were helpfull and curteous and when I thanked them they laughed and said that compared to what they usually had to deal with it was a nice change.So yes I think penalties for hitting an officer should be greater than a penalty for hitting me...simple. x R
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RHP User
13 years ago
Now it's a vote winning political football. Which is why so many of them are yobs that end up out of their depth.You people that think filling Australia with more police will fix our violence problems are all dreaming. Maybe I should point at the USA? No drunken or drug affected dick head thinks of the consequences of hitting a copper. And they are the people the law is aimed at.I never said there was not decent coppers out there. So don't quote me on that. Putting your words in someone else's mouth does not a discussion make. There are still decent copper out there.. I say again... It's just so often you come across the other sort. Blokes who thought they'd have a crack at being a copper because it gave them a chance to stand over other folk and look tough.As a tax payer I want my money spent well. Locking people up keeps the sanctimonious amongst us happy... But at over 100k/year for minor assault I draw the line!! Assaults that should never happen in the first place if the right people were in blue.My mother use to say to me "If you got a hair cut, the cops would not hassle you". Is that really the sort of country you want for your children? Out of respect for my grandfather who went off and fought a bunch of blokes who thought authoritarian societies were the way to go, I'll say my piece.When that woman jumped of the bridge in front of me the other month. The second question the copper who showed up asked was "Was the other person on the bridge an abbo?' Fuck yeah! Their the sort of blokes we want keeping our society peaceful.Think very very hard about what country we're leaving for our children. We need a police force. But is should be educated, efficient and caring. Not full of so many brainless yobbos. Why is it you think so many of the good cops in the WA force are leaving? Some of them will quietly tell you it's because so many of the new breed are not cut out for the job. Yes I know some copper too.And ladies and children, I will always think you being bashed is just as bad as a copper getting bashed. Not the other way around (as the law says).. There is no mandatory detention for bashing a lady or a child..Society is to be protected by the force, not be subservient to it. Also, not being able to criticize authority is always a slippery slide for a country people.. Besides the police for should be tough enough to take a bit of critique with out getting all pissed shouldn't they?If I had my way we'd sack half of them and pay the other half twice as much.. I think a very large number of cops would agree with me?
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RHP User
13 years ago
has the respect gone for people nowdays? I have actually asked our 18year old son not to help people in trouble when he goes out, cause we know what happens to the ones that do!!!!! It was one of the hardest things for me to ask him to do, because being the people we are, we do not like watching anyone being beaten or berated! You know what he said to me?.....He said :but Mum, I can't do that, cause it's not how you brought me up"!...... Shit, i had a feeling he would say something like that and you know what, we will (all five of us in our immediate family) will stand up and help anyone.... As for the boys/girls and anyone else wearing a uniform...you will always have our respect!
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RHP User
13 years ago
The fact they are in prison shows that mandatory sentencing, the point of this post, does not work. If the threat of prison was a deterrent they simply would not be there.If you can't fix a sore tooth you should not be a dentist, if you can't fix a leak you should not be a plumber, if you can't sort out some angry dick (who's not drunk or stoned) then you should not be a cop. A drunk or stoned yobbo is not going to be worried about consequence anyway.Therefore mandatory sentencing, the topic of this thread, is a waste of our tax dollars. It is an expensive law that achieves very little. Quoting 'tuscanred' I see the end results in prison, they are very meek and mild in there, cause there is consequences of thumping an officer.
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bluelight_taxi
13 years ago
Whether it be Police or a member of the Community our laws are not protecting the innocent. They are designed to meet the Governments requirement and the tread sofley as not to offend the political lobby gruops, minority groups and not forgetting the other lobby groups etc in our community. Governments do not want to build prisons as it cost money..so lets privatise these, if we lock these crims up it offends certain minority gruops and the do gooders brigade because the may be beaten up in prison or sexually assaulted, the list goes on and on. We need minimum sentenceing not maximum sentencing. that way the courts cannot give anything less than the set sentence. Rape or Murder life. Bashing Old folk or home invasion whether they are drunk or sober 10 years etc no parole. or they can be given the choice small prison sentence and the strokes of the Ratton cane , like in Singapore, Malaysia etc..Crims raely re-offend.
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RHP User
13 years ago
That coppers have less leniency when it comes to being punished for crimes they commit? They can also be double charged (as in internals and civilly). Should there be a higher penalty for assaulting them? Absofuckinglutely.The reason many good coppers leave the job is due to lack of respect and back up. Why the hell should they put their life on the line when they have no back up from the public, no protection from the govt etc.Defence are not like civilians - they are entrusted with a power and should they abuse it I also support the full force of the law being brought down on them. Though it goes both ways and it is rather disheartening to see an entire service disregarded due to the actions of a few numbnuts. Bashing blue starts with attitudes before physical...TR nailed it.
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RHP User
13 years ago
In Victoria, section 31 of the Crimes Act 1958, talks about assault on a police officer and it also covers persons aiding and abetting the lawful duties of a police officer. I was a crowd controller/security guard which had me in the latter. I've dealt with those that were that drunk they could hardly stand up let alone walk all through to the devil incarnate that is ice, which I've a few battle scars, mostly a dent in the back of my head from the devil. I worked a job as security at a caravan park about 30mins drive south of my hometown. We turned up in what we would describe as full battle dress. This consisted of, at the time, .45 calibre semi-auto pistol, handcuffs, baton, combat torch, etc. Whilst on patrol, we would mingle, talk to the caravan goers, have a laugh, and sometimes invited in for dinner coffee etc. One couple eventually decided to ask us "why are you guys carrying guns??" I nearly laughed at her unintentionally. We had to explain that while it was a very nice little community, there are some that choose not to obey simple life's rules. 12 months prior to us doing the job, police were called to deal with a gentleman walking through the park with an axe threatening he would slice his missus up when he finds her. On that same year I was posted to this caravan park, I was off duty thank Christ, there had been an undisclosed incident involving a shotgun. So our question to the lovely couple after informing them of those two incidents were "would you like us to just throw our mobile phone at them??" Some people know no consequence like those of silver bracelets. But it's not just in our public streets, but it must be acknowledged that those people paid to enforce our laws are also people. They are subject to the same pitfalls as you and I, but when you're surrounded by the devil of society constantly, I'm surprised more police haven't cracked a little toward the dark side.
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RHP User
13 years ago
If trouble starts I would love to have a cop standing along side me too... These day guys think its fun putting some one in hospital, and 90% of these guy will only pick on someone they know they can beat, they are gutless wonders... Today its all gangs (3 or more guys) going out just to pick on someone for the hell of it... We are all for the boys in BLUE
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RHP User
13 years ago
...then there's nothing to dissuade that person from attacking anyone at all. Like you, LRE, I find this reasoning flawed but you can't fight the system (or so I'm told). Apparently, the modern police force is made up of highly trained, dedicated and principled recruits. I'd like to believe this is true but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. In my experience, there are two kinds of people that become cops. There are the young idealists who believe they can make a difference and there's the cowboys who want to carry a gun and tell people what to do. The problem is, the idealists learn quickly that they're not really making a difference and wind up corrupted by the culture of the older, arrogant, authority hungry cops who love throwing their weight around and wroughting the sysyem. I've known a lot of police officers over the years through my involvement with the Police Youth Clubs, from working in an R.S.L. that the local force liked to frequent and by living near a station. I've always seen the same thing, over and over. The young recruit, wide eyed and eager, invariably becoming just another loud, swaggering bully. Cops are just people in a uniform and power corrupts people.
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RHP User
13 years ago
This thread is not about poking holes in the police force (though I have been critical of some aspects of it). It's about MANDATORY SENTENCING LAWS and the fact they waste our money and do not fix a problem.I said in my last post "We need a police force" so don't be telling me I don't have support for our police force (despite my negative experiences). I just expect it to behave in a professional way.History shows us, time and time again, placing authority above the people they are meant to serve is a dangerous thing. So i don't want it done in the country I love. Not even on a minor scale.If there is a general lack of respect for the Police force, does that not reinforce my point? It is vitally important that the police force is broadly respected. I'm not talking about a few minor dickheads who "throw rocks at them" either, I'm talking about the community in general. If those above who've pointed out that coppers are leaving because of broad lack of respect, then we have a real problem. My mate says he's pissed off by the things I’ve described above, but he may be a skewed sample?
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RHP User
13 years ago
I did security/armed cash drops and armed static work and some of the crap I had to put up with was ridiculous. I had a shotty pushed into my face, had someone try to stick me with a syringe- he came very close to getting shot I can tell you, and various other things. Now every time something went wrong I had to get my lawyer and spend hours giving statements and such because they were "looking into my behavior" don't get me wrong, a security guard isn't a cop but we see a lot of the same stuff and in the city security guards are dealing with things well before the cops get there. Add to that the time I got stabbed AND after I restrained the guy a little physically I got charged with assault, all got dropped of course but that's rubbish, I get stabbed and get charged for belting the guy who did it. The guy did 13 months of a 3 year sentence, was on bail for domestic violence already. I nearly die and he gets just over a year. That's bullsh!t
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RHP User
13 years ago
I got jumped twice in 2008/9 once by 3 guys, once by 4. And again I'm the one who gets charged, they had a trolley handle in both cases and a empty Jim beam bottle. I'm lucky in both cases that they were so pissed I didn't get hit to the ground otherwise I would have been in serious trouble. I hate violence but seriously sometimes you need to fight back as hard as you possibly can.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Absolutely, and with all this crap going on, as LRE the sentences AREN'T being enough of a deterrent. I say lets go Texan style lol.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Well its great to see that most people think that we should respect the police. What you may not know is that our chaps(Girls and Guys)who put out our fires and attend us when hurt (Ambos) also get pushed shoved and bashed while trying to do their jobs. I have been on the end of some drunk idiots violence while trying to save his house. He was taken into custody when the boys in blue arrived but he was let off when fronting the beack as he would have been upset at the fact his house was burning. Nothing to do with the fact he had pot growing under lights in the extra bedroom and overloaded the electricity. Extra jail/fines or maybe the stocks with the pants down. YES YES.....
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RHP User
13 years ago
Yep, bring back the death penalty
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RHP User
13 years ago
wow this subject sure straightens up a few backbones....lol....we live within a system that is based on profit....think about it...there would be jobs for everybody if the focus was on bettering society for people....but the reality is profit driven...the police once with tax payers dollars protected and served....protect and serve...that is a long way from what we have today...officers of the law are no more than revenue collectors these days........there are too many people ...too many reasons to hate...just to name a couple...racial warfare...class warfare and hey lets throw in sexual preference.....the people that run the world are sitting back having a good laugh at their sheeples...(.in my opinion and thats all it is)...you cannot lay blame on a single entity of a corrupt system.......so in a nutshell yes they need better protection because people out there are getting angry.....that will be my rant for the day ;)
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RHP User
13 years ago
The criminal justice system (an that include police, corrections, courts)attempts to control behaviours defined as unlawful, and this gives a very substantial powers over citizens. The common rationale is that this power is legitimised because the majority of citizens approve it - in other words we are prepared to accept some lawful restrictions on our freedom in return for social stability and regulation. What some people fail to realise is that the social learning & cognitive behaviour starts at home with mum & dad, and not with the system/state. The system/state is not responsible with teaching "Johnny" what's wrong or right, mum & dad is. We can talk about alternative models until we get blue in the face (somebody above mentioned the US style) but if mum & dad at home will not do their job and stop deferring their responsabilities on the account of the system, beyond incapacitation(which in US style it does mean capital panishment) the system will be under more presure to rectify bad social behaviour, and in terms of corrections and correcting this, it will just be a revolving door type of process. I say we should all take responsability for "Johnny" social learning process (which starts at a very early age), and start putting in the hard yards in educating our youngsters, rather than deferring responsability on to the system be that police, courts, schools, corrections, etc.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Mandatory sentencing does not work as a deterrent for any crime. There are plenty of studies and stats to show it. It's usually implemented for political reasons when a politician or party wants to be seen as tough on the crime of the day.It also runs a real risk of having people punished in a way that does not fit the circumstances of the crime. A magistrate hears the whole story and makes a decision on sentencing and is more likely to get it right than a hard and fast rule.I had two mates in separate incidents face charges of assaulting police and resisting arrest when we were young and stupid. Both were smartarses but neither threw a punch - their crime was to be beaten in a way that left marks so they had to be charged. In both cases the Magistrate had to side with the police but it smelt enough that fines with no convictions were awarded. The whole station was cleaned out years later in a purge of corrupt police in NSW. An extreme example but a good one where the Magistrate had the whole story and could respond appropriately.Mr C
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RHP User
13 years ago
i can see we will never agree on this topic...although i do agree there has to be regulation for the unruly types out there.and most certainly education begins early at home with mum and dad....but we just dont live in that world anymore...parents arent always home to look after their kids...bills to pay,jobs..long hours ...broken homes...the list just goes on.....i just dont agree with way this system works,its clearly failing on so many levels...
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RHP User
13 years ago
But having capital punishment sends out the message to society that killing is Ok if you feel justified. Which is why 90% of the states that have it also have far and away the highest murder rates.Singapore is the exception. But given it's a very benevolent dictatorship, no one is financially/socially stressed enough to do those sort of crimes. The place where to govt gives you everything you want to shut you up ~LOL~Killing people only satisfies the bloodthirsty and vindictive amounts us. It does nothing for crime rates..~points at the USA again~
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RHP User
13 years ago
Since when is thumping a copper balanced by taking a life? Not that punishments should be "payback" anyway..~sheesh~
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RHP User
13 years ago
...and if i thought longer jail terms stopped this sort of minor shit. I'd vote for it. But sadly it doesn't. We need to find a better way and one that does not cost taxpayers so much. It has to start by people exchanging ideas in forums like this. Capital punishment and long jail terms do nothing to solve the problem and both are very very expensive. Those who are interested can Google the cost of putting someone to death in the US where their legal framework is flimsy, to say the least. Regardless of wether you'd like to see someone killed or not, it's just not economically vialbe. Quoting 'acitore69' Well its great to see that most people think that we should respect the police. What you may not know is that our chaps(Girls and Guys)who put out our fires and attend us when hurt (Ambos) also get pushed shoved and bashed while trying to do their jobs. I have been on the end of some drunk idiots violence while trying to save his house. He was taken into custody when the boys in blue arrived but he was let off when fronting the beack as he would have been upset at the fact his house was burning. Nothing to do with the fact he had pot growing under lights in the extra bedroom and overloaded the electricity. Extra jail/fines or maybe the stocks with the pants down. YES YES.....
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RHP User
13 years ago
Being too close to someone drinking Jim Beam..Very tricky situation to be in. Quoting 'Torturedcliche' I got jumped twice in 2008/9 once by 3 guys, once by 4. And again I'm the one who gets charged, they had a trolley handle in both cases and a empty Jim beam bottle. I'm lucky in both cases that they were so pissed I didn't get hit to the ground otherwise I would have been in serious trouble. I hate violence but seriously sometimes you need to fight back as hard as you possibly can.
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RHP User
13 years ago
The right to bear arms. Not so much death, although I do agree with the death penalty. Crime rates in America are a little over bearing as comparison. They have a higher population, and whenever you have a large amount of people in the area, you're going to have a higher crime rate anyway.
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RHP User
13 years ago
He was the last man to be executed in Australia. Debate still rages as to whether or not he was guilty but the jury who found him guilty believed his sentence would be commuted as this had happened in every case since 1951. The judge as convinced of Ryan's guilt but thought the sentence should have been commuted on appeal. There were contradictory witness statements. The most convincing arguement was that Ryan had verbally amitted his guilt to police on a plane trip but he denied making any confession (people still trusted a police officer's word in the sixties but we know better now). Reviews of the case sustain the belief that he should not have been found guilty due to reasonable doubt. Many innocent men have been executed and it's questionable as to whether the death penalty deters criminals (look at the Bali nine) it just seems to make them more desperate and dangerous at the time of their capture.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'coasteride'i can see we will never agree on this topic...although i do agree there has to be regulation for the unruly types out there.and most certainly education begins early at home with mum and dad....but we just dont live in that world anymore...parents arent always home to look after their kids...bills to pay,jobs..long hours ...broken homes...the list just goes on.....i just dont agree with way this system works,its clearly failing on so many levels... People should not have children if they cannot provide early education & welfare for their offsprings, without the states help. Is not the state's or system job, to provide that early social learning. It may seem harsh but having children is a great responsability in relation to what they become - is a rational choice that people make (to have children that is)and is not a right for which society should be held responsible. Schools are there to enlighten the individual with knowledge, but mum & dad are responsible for their children's behaviour. Deferring responsability just because mum & dad has to work, to pay up bills or whatever, is just a cop out. My mum & dad both worked and I did not become a drug user, a juvenile deliquent, nor a criminal adult. But as you said this is a very charged topic, so we'll have to agree to disagree
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RHP User
13 years ago
agree to disagree we shall..sorry LRE for going on a tangent....back to education then...perhaps the girls and boys in blue need some extra social skills...some extra education on how to deal with all kinds of people...as the population increases so does crime...so does the difficulty to deal with each individual as their problem as such occurs.....punishment equates to slavery and that is a proven process that does not work....mandatory sentencing is an easy way out ...just label and catogorise the masses based on a facts sheet....
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RHP User
13 years ago
In the USA, violent crime is a multitude higher than anywhere else based on crimes/100 000 people. It's all to do with the attitude that it's ok to kill if you feel justified. So it has nothing to do with population.At 4.2 - 100 000 the USA is far ans away the worst in the 1st world. While China is only 1.0. Though that stat could be a little wobbly, but not by a factor of 4?If you go to the AIC website you can see that since 1967 when the death penalty was abolished in Australia, murder rates have shown steady decline. Gun related murders have dropped even more.The death penalty is simply a political football aimed at wining the votes of those who like a bit of payback killing. Quoting 'hardtruckin2011' The right to bear arms. Not so much death, although I do agree with the death penalty. Crime rates in America are a little over bearing as comparison. They have a higher population, and whenever you have a large amount of people in the area, you're going to have a higher crime rate anyway.
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RHP User
13 years ago
WTF are people talking about capital punishment for? We have just seen how well the court system works with Andrew Mallard found to be NOT the person who Killed that jeweller in Mosman park and there were calls for the death penalty for that! Instesd he spent a few years in gaol for a crime he didn't commit!!!! How many innocent people are YOU happy to kill in the name of justice ? Many of the people put on death row in the US are poor and poorly educated and convicted on some dodgy evidence. There is quite a bit of evidence some of these people have been wrongly convicted and improved forensics are proving them innocent. Again how many innocent people need to die? Mike Yeah LRE I agree mandatory sentecing isn't ideal.
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RHP User
13 years ago
You're totally right, children are a big responsibility. But in a free country it's everyone’s right to have them. Or why did my grandfather go to war against the Nazis? I'd never take that right off someone. way too Big Brother for me.However, what we should have though is greater social support for families at risk. Give tangible support (not money) to families at risk. If we still have family fail happening, remove the children until the situation is stable. This is way cheaper than having a dysfunctional family producing minor crime jail birds.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I remembered hearing somewhere that in 75% of capital punishment cases in the USA. Mitigating evidence was withheld from the defence during the trial.Evidently there is a bunch of anti-death penalty lawyers who go over past cases picking holes in them (in their spare time) to try to demonstrate it's floors. I’m sure anyone who want's to google can find this stuff, but I’m googled out for this morning. ~waggles fingers~
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RHP User
13 years ago
One of the worst things about mandatory sentencing is that there is NO rehabilitation due to overworked guards and no system of retraining people out of damaging behaviours. There is also (and I know I will have people calling me racist) a problem with aboriginal people being over represented in our gaol population. Most of this is due to social disadvatage and the poor way aboriginals have been treated inthis country over 200 years. Mandatory sentencing just shows a poor understanding of what people are asking for when they complain of increasing crime stats. Which by the way are NOT increasing it just seems to be due to sensationalist media reaction. How many women now say they don't feel safe on the street after the murder of Jillian in Melbourne despite the fact they live in Perth? The calls for increased surveilance on the streets of our cities will not stop a random crazy.... Too many times when something happens and it pops up as a headline there is a public outcry and our pollies bounce up and say they will make a law to cover some special circumstance. We are having increased caveats to laws like three strikes, and the new freedom of association laws over "bikies", which can and WILL be used against ordinary citizens. I lived in Queensland when they had the anti-protest laws as put in place by Joh (for PM) and I marched against these repressive sorts of laws. Oh well ... Mike
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'LittleRedEngine'You're totally right, children are a big responsibility. But in a free country it's everyone’s right to have them. Or why did my grandfather go to war against the Nazis? I'd never take that right off someone. way too Big Brother for me.However, what we should have though is greater social support for families at risk. Give tangible support (not money) to families at risk. If we still have family fail happening, remove the children until the situation is stable. This is way cheaper than having a dysfunctional family producing minor crime jail birds. Although I agree with you on the case of social support, I totally disagree with your statement relating to the right of having children. Having children is not a right nor is it stipulated in the human rights charter - is a rational choice an individual makes, and is posible because we leave in a free country. Freedom is what your pop fought for. This is a very complex discussion and I am sure that each one of us will have a diferent way in make an analysis. All I am saying is that we all as a community/society should take more responsability.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Crime will be anywhere there are people. Be it in societies innocents, or in the very people who are paid to uphold the law. The current system has flaws, the American system is flawed, as for china well the people over there are thrown in the slammer for thinking differently to the government. But the common denominator throughout all of this, is where you have individuals, you're going to get a vast array of differences, flaws, etc. whatever the system, whatever the deterrent, criminals will always be criminals. We can sit here moaning tit for tat, but when there's a flawless deterrent, humans won't exist.
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