M66
A SERIOUS Moral Dilemma (Part 2)
August 24 2014
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
So I'm guessing the woman isn't your daughter then. If your son or brother is being abusive to a woman you have an obligation to do everything you can to get through to him to moderate his fucking behaviour I reckon. It's a tough job, but it's got to be done. And you still need to try to get her to leave.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Now you give him a serious talking too. Don't you.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Cavey, I would hope that this would make it easier to address the problem (the "problem" in no uncertain terms being abuse) in that therein lies an opportunity for a fellow male with "intimate history" to take this fellow aside and get into his head (i.e. identify the reason(s) he acts the way he does). The other fellow (son or brother or even a friend) may be able to open up in a way that is more genuine and less defensive, and that may highlight pathways and strategies that could be implemented to ensure the best possible outcome is achieved (and that is the abuse stops....permanently). Essentially, I would suggest we all agree that abuse should not be tolerated, regardless of who is the perpetrator, or why, and there is unfortunately simply no easy way out if a cycle has developed. Counseling etc may not help the relationship, but it may help the individuals concerned to end the relationship (and thus the cycle) and move on with their separate lives. The problem is reaching one if the two people trapped in the cycle. It really dies not matter which one it is, as if one can be reached then a decisive resolution can be made. That is when support is required to the individuals (respective or otherwise). Having history or a past relationship with the male concerned may just provide the leverage that is needed. Obi1
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Smilingwithfun
11 years ago
It would make the remedy easier but the emotional consequences more difficult.
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RHP User
11 years ago
agree with Meeka, what a conundrum. Good luck Cavey.
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Lovinit28andKC72
11 years ago
Yes it's time to talk, openly and honestly with him, you know it's wrong and more than likely so will he. What gave me the strength to leave was my children, so that my sons wouldn't think it was ok to treat women like that and so my daughter wouldn't think that is ok to be treated like that. One of my greatest fears as a mother was that my second oldest son would indeed take this path, as he also suffered a lot of his fathers abuse. He has had serious anger issues, he's done anger management and we used other tools that were given to us..... He hasn't as yet and i hope that I helped/educated him enough that he never does..... It's a cycle that needs breaking, as hard as it is to break it needs to stop... There are resources and people to help out there, he just needs to be brave enough to admit and see he has a problem and wants help....god luck Cavey, my thoughts are with you.....💋
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Cheekyarses
11 years ago
Cavey - by the comments made before me - I agree with Meeka... Sending you love x
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RHP User
11 years ago
D/V tends to be a cycle. Was your own father abusive in any way if it was your brother? I'm not asking if you were, could not fathom this. Is this man aware of his behaviour? Does he recognize he's doing things that aren't right? There are specific services for perpetrators of D/V. Though the behaviour is atrocious, I've met quite a few men that were actually really nice guys. They were acting the way they were because of their own pains and fears, and because everyone in their life hated them for being a perpetrator, they felt unworthy of accepting help, or were too scared to look for it for fear of being judged as a terrible human being.
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RHP User
11 years ago
These perpetrators are usually full of pain, which needs to be recognised. The first time I told a guy who was beating his girlfriend I could see how much pain he was in, he nearly fell off his chair before bursting into tears. No one had said that to him before. And how true is this quote: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Yup as per above - the good part (if- that's what you can call it) though possibly the hardest part, is that you have a great oppopportunity to speak with this person and get through to him the consequences to him as the perpetrator. A big heavy responsibility for you Cavey. Good luck - you have some fabulous moral support here on line for you as you go on this journey. It might be an idea to look into counselling for yourself as well as this is going to challenge you on so many levels. X - Posted from rhpmobile
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QLDtwo4fun
11 years ago
The morality of the situation doesn't change. What changes is your concern in the matter. Is blood thicker than other peoples human dignity? It may take more fortitude on your part to do what is right.
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RHP User
11 years ago
with what the others have said, my only addition is that (1) you do something, you know the one, "evil thrives when good men do nothing",from your "attitude" on here I gather you are a doer not a talker.And (2) look after yourself through this, don't take it all on yourself, accept help when offered and talk to someone if it gets too much.Best wishes.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Cavey, This became a bit long, sorry. in summary, I suggest you google: - Cycle of Abuse - Gaslighting - A book called Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them: Breaking the Cycle of Physical and Emotional Abuse, by Paul Hegstrom She needs to make the decision but knowing she has support is crucial, somewhere to live and be safe. Also, however bad she thinks it is, that's her understanding of LOVE right now. even if she knows it's wrong or doesn't like it. Deep down she may well think that his emotions and physical attacks correlate to how much HE loves and needs her. If you google 'Cycle of abuse' there's a lot of good info online that describes physical, psychological abuse etc, the potentil causes, psychology of and most importantly, the Phases. From Wikipedia: The cycle usually goes in the following order, and will repeat until the conflict is stopped, usually by the survivor entirely abandoning the relationship or some form of intervention. The cycle can occur hundreds of times in an abusive relationship, the total cycle taking anywhere from a few hours, to a year or more to complete. However, the length of the cycle usually diminishes over time so that the "reconciliation" and "calm" stages may disappear,violence becomes more intense and the cycles become more frequent. I always recognised this type of attribute and patterns in my relationships but didn't know there was a name for it. There's some good stuff out there and I think if you understand it, just as meander said, there's so much underlying pain and rejection. I don't men to generalise here but through experience many times, I've found that men who were in some way abandoned in their early to mid teens (13 -15) (eg parents separate, divorce, death or homelessness, even drugs ) often have psych trauma that evolves into this cycle and dominant controlling through fear. The most intense examples are when the (usually) female partner has her own abandonment issues. the abandonment > lack of self worth > reinforced by a controlling or scared partner just feeds itself. When you're in it like she is, you really can't see it as others do because you make excuses and become desensitised. Gaslighting is another very typical thing that reinforces that ^ behaviour and lack of confidence or self doubt. From Wikipedia: Gaslighting or gas-lightingis a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. It's really screwy - I'm still struggling with accepting nice happy drama free relationships. drama equaled love in a very abstract and subliminal way.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Watching what is going on and not doing anything especially when it's your own family hurling the abuse.....sorry does not bear well with me. Such a sad dilemma. Hope you are able to make a difference for the better Cavey XX - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Fuk it give the fool a touch up (smack around the head) my grandmother died of this shit ? My mother lived 45yrs with it proudly my brother and i do not do any of it. But simply treat them how they are treating her ? Harsh maybe but it may save her life n stop a prison stint for him...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Warning69' Fuk it give the fool a touch up (smack around the head) (...) Harsh maybe but it may save her life n stop a prison stint for him... Or anger the angry man even more and put her in an early grave. Mmmm, tough choice.
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RHP User
11 years ago
That was crude and uncalled for.
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RHP User
11 years ago
It could be extremely advantageous towards initiating, encouraging & supporting this man in addressing the underlying issues which can only be beneficial to everyone concerned in the long run.
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RHP User
11 years ago
taken back by the comments.. ALL very much appreciated !! So.. to clarify things a little.. I am a parent whose child is in an abusive relationship.To further complicate things, I have no credibility with her, and she is not open to any help from me.My "Primal" self wants to do what I was brought up on, and engage in the animalistic behaviour of my own past.And that burning hatred is strong, and honestly does argue VERY compellingly.It keeps me awake some nights, and I find myself outside in the dark, literally "Burning" to get on my bike, and Go visiting.."Loaded for Bear" I have taken on-board, all the comments, and fully appreciate the sentiments behind them all. Where will it all end?Damn.. I WISH I knew that answer.. The Problem??I HAD a friend Kathy for awhile..Same shit happened to her.. He killed her.. and the frustrating thing was that I NEVER even knew it was going on..I wrote her AFTERWARDS.. On Kathy’s DepartureThere is another star in the sky tonight,just below the southern cross,and saddened hearts at home down here.Heaven’s gain becomes our loss.A special friend to manyleft last week with no “Good bye”and Kathy, all who knew youasked together “Why God? Why?”No one answered in the echoand we sat aghast with griefat a treasure stolen from usby the lowest coward thief.Here’s a heartfelt tribute Keilyfrom the eyes I saw you through,for the precious times together, the special friendship that we knew.Of all the faces I have known,tonight, yours stands apart.The gentle warmth which made it glowis now within my heart.If there was anyway to changewhat happened, you know I would,but that is wishful thinking, dear friend, and wishful thinking has done no good.Though your passing out parade was sad,my faith can ease the painfor I believe in soulomniscenceand that we shall meet again.So sit you well beneath our cross – you earned that right, my friend.And in the knowledge that you are at rest,our mortal hurts shall mend.Now through the violent clangerand the dead re-echoed tollthere comes a peaceful momentas if that answer’s in my soul.Tonight, I see that star grow brighteras I look into the skyand I know it’s Kathy wavingto her friends, to say goodbye.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Was counting on you Cavey, glad to have sat back on this one. Mado Mado Tara xx
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madotara69
11 years ago
Sometimes things get a little hazy Sometimes I think I'm just a little crazy I don't even know my own name Soon all of me will go up in flamesWearing scars on my arms and in my eyes Are you friends or enemies in disguise? So hard when everything just runs against me Jealous words turn into a love/hate frenzyWon't someone lend me a helping hand? Time is up to the time that's left undone Time to grab my hat, grab my coat I gotta load my gunSilly things always, always Are the ones that turn out worst And it seams the ones that love you Always hurt you the mostWon't someone please understand? Won't someone lend me a helping hand? Won't someone please take the time to think That your actions and words They don't always say what they mean?Since I was a child, I used to dream of many things Superstars, the bizarre, kings and their pretty queens Now it seems I need a shot, a drink to jog my thoughts Why does this happen all the time?Is it, is it just because, because no one will understand? Won't someone lend me a helping hand? Won't someone take the time to think? That your actions and words They don't always say what they mean?
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Tall74nHard9
11 years ago
You've got plenty of god words given to you, and hopefully some will steer you in a positive direction. Can't really add much more worthwhile to what's been said beforehand, but sincerely wish you the best in your decisions and endeavours. You say you have no credibility with her, but how do you stand with her parents / family ? Are you able to perhaps join forces with them to try and give her the assistance she needs, but is unwilling to accept from you ? As some have noted, there seem to be many various organizations existing that deal with these situations - perhaps that may be a step in the right direction for you in order to be able to assist your son with the problems that are brewing. I'm afraid you'll require plenty of patience, but making a start to decide to help is what is needed. Best of luck, Tall
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Plain280
11 years ago
The horrible part in this scenario, is trying to work out the cause of this affliction, there is lots of reflection, guilt and emotional baggage to deal with. The hard part is asking the question why and not getting answered back properly as in I dont know or because, usually a sign that he needs some professional guidance to eek the reasons out.And here in lies the problem he has to recognise theres a problem and volunteer himself to this guidance otherwise it will get worse.As to promoting violence that can be detrimental as in you belt him and he may not comprehend why and he will then take that out on the persons you are trying to help.All I can say is good luck Cavey and be honest with your self and the lad.
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RHP User
11 years ago
First of all, be kind to yourself! You cannot save those that don't want to be saved, and sometimes sadly you can't save those who need it. You can offer support and guidance and provide information on where to get help. Phone one of the abuse lines and ask for advice or go and get some counselling yourself. (yes, I know not a very Cavey thing to do, but sometimes having someone that knows their shit puts things into perspective and can give you the skills that you need to deal with this) If you can and your daughter is open to it, try to reconnect or talk to someone that she respects and will listen to, get them to see that she doesn't have to live this life. A lot of women that stay in abusive relationships have no sense of self worth, which leaves them thinking they either deserve it or aren't strong enough to leave. be wary of confrontation with the abuser, it will possibly escalate the abuse. Best wishes and a squeezy cuddle for you x
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