F61
A Ethical Hypothetical
February 11 2013
Comments
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RHP User
13 years ago
Before posting this I know where your going with this Shinas, so my answer will be as you suspect Turn them in no matter what the consequences. You have to live with yourself first PS: answer your bloody emails Shinas :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
Tell the truth as you know it. Let justice take its course. Trust justice will be served - yes we know that this is not always the case but what can you do? Lying or omitting will come back to bite somehow. Tricky one MsS. Love a good ethical dilemma :) PS answer your bloody messages :P
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RHP User
13 years ago
Things I never thought myself capable of. Some times, shit happens and you don't always know how someone will respond. I wouldn't defend their actions if I found out that the accusations to be true but I would stand by my loved one completely.
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RHP User
13 years ago
ex boyfriend who also worked for me,was charged with a serious crime.However he confessed, so that was not an issue.He was only twenty-one at the time,I went to all of his legal apointments,and his two court appearances.My daughter and I both wrote character references for him The magistrate said it was mainly due to what his ex girlfriend said about him, that informed her decision to give him a three year suspended sentence. If you have evidence that someone has committed a crime then of course you should contact the police. But everyone deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty,can you be 100 per cent certain that he committed this crime?That will certainly inform any decision that you make as to your continuing relationship. My daughter and I are still friends with her ex,even though what he did was truly awful,but it was totally out of character and he was truely remorseful.
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madotara69
13 years ago
As I may incriminate myself
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RHP User
13 years ago
There are some offences that are unforgiveable. I have a similar circumstance in my family atm as you are aware shinas, if I was 100% certain of this family members involvement I would go straight to the police if I didn't hunt him down first (after he gets out of prison for what he's already been sentenced for). But in this hypothetical case all you can do is tell the truth as you see it and leave it to the police to work out. Would I stick by him/her, well it depends on what the charges were and whether you could live with supporting said person. Ethically I would never aid someone in this scenario if it meant breaking the law myself. Just do what you feel is right and live with the consequences.
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RHP User
13 years ago
and how it was collected/analysed before i made any decision. Those seeds of doubt also need analysis. What evidence in your mind is there of their guilt. Exactly what behaviours have you seen that point to guilt or deception? I would make sure they had satisfactory legal representation then (you mentioned family?) my children would be my first priority. If my partner had any integrity, they would agree that this is my role above anything else. I would outline my concerns to my partner and tell them, and that when asked (and I definitely would be) that I would be completely honest with the police. At the end of the day, we are responsible only for ourselves and in my case that would include my children. Having said all of this ... Fuck knows what I'd really do. I do know that I've had a family member of mine charged over a horrible, appalling crime and I am proud of myself everyday for having the courage to do what I did. Good luck sweetie, and keep reaching out to people who will support you. There are plenty I'm sure Xxx
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RHP User
13 years ago
All I can say is... Shinas you have a "DUTY OF CARE" to YOURSELF first and for most... That means looking after your mental and physical health.. I would be seeking professional help in getting the right support...if it means talking to a psychologist I would... I can't imagine what you are going through right now..However I don't think RHP is the place to seek answers...to me if police and courts involved..privacy is a must for all involved. I'm sure you are getting support from friends and family..... what I read of your posts you seem like a wise educated woman.. Right now things appear blury, in time I hope it all works out for you. :-) SuperFox - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
13 years ago
To answer I would need more information if I may? Was the loved one provoked? Were their actions to protect you/their family? Using iPhone which I believe negates spacing paragraphs etc.....
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RHP User
13 years ago
Although not a crime of violence, a crime nonetheless. There was police involvement, and it could have gone a lot further than it did.In a hypothetical situation, it is relatively easy to be objective, and say with a reasonable degree of confidence "I would do this", or "I would do that". In the real world, sadly, it isn't so black and white.On a personal level, I was well and truly caught in the middle. I dealt with the victim, the accused, the police, trying in vain to get things resolved. I dreaded answering the phone, or getting a knock on the door at three in the morning. It is not something I'd wish on anyone.
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RHP User
13 years ago
I would let justice take its natural course and be there for my partner in an emotional capacity. As to aiding them leave the country, snooping etc it would depend upon what the hypothetical crime is and how strong my suspicions/doubts were... I do hope this is hypothetical question only and nothing untoward is burdening that beautiful mind. And Missy as was said earlier, answer your bloody emails!
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RHP User
13 years ago
from an objective point of view, tell the authorities what I KNOW to be true (not what I know to be true therefore I guess XYZ could have happened.) But knowing this person well and knowing their history (or lack of it in terms of criminality and violence) I would stand by them. I would of course be asking questions of my partner, tis human nature.
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RHP User
13 years ago
You really gotta stop those late night crime shows, and get of the computer!
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RHP User
13 years ago
Honestly, it would depend on whether I could figure out if my own doubts were just paranoia or if there was a genuine concern that they were guilty. I would discuss my concerns with them and see if I could judge their response. I would also ask the reason why the crime was committed. Was it self defence? Having said that any crime involving children/rape/hurting elderly I'd have to dog them in
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smo669
13 years ago
Wonderful conundrum, I hope it is truly hypothetical . I would say, support and stick by your partner. Remember that we have a legal system here, which is not always a justice system. A lot of innocent people have been convicted and done time for deeds they did not commit. My 2cents worth
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RHP User
13 years ago
Quoting 'SuperFox' All I can say is... Shinas you have a "DUTY OF CARE" to YOURSELF first and for most... That means looking after your mental and physical health.. I would be seeking professional help in getting the right support...if it means talking to a psychologist I would... I can't imagine what you are going through right now..However I don't think RHP is the place to seek answers...to me if police and courts involved..privacy is a must for all involved. I'm sure you are getting support from friends and family..... what I read of your posts you seem like a wise educated woman.. Right now things appear blury, in time I hope it all works out for you. :-) SuperFox This is a hypothetical question...........................the scenario is currently part of a research project at a major university in the US - the results so far are very surprising..hence why I thougth I would put it out to a forum of wise people but all who came from different cultures, races, religion, socio economic background.....etc All I ask is that you reread the scenario ...you cannot ask any more questions...you have to base your answer on what information has already been supplied (yes I know its frustrating)....:) .and the crime that has been committed is atrocious to you.................. and then see what YOU would do.................. thankyou to all who have posted so far...very very interesting reading ... JS - yes I went up before the E C & C this morning and this paper was discussed. - god were you sitting by the computer waiting for me to post ???????????????...snowed in I take it ?????????????? Your dogs fine, your house is fine, Im fine............................um to all that I owe emails to...Im getting there..!!!.... TR - cant sleep
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RHP User
13 years ago
To me there are degrees here and I would need more information to know how to respond.It's not right, but it would be dependent on the crime (IMHO) for instance as I'm ruled by my heart.Was the crime committed against the innocent or committed against a serial killer for example?If it was against a say a child, then I would kick their arse to the curb without a second thought.If it was against a pedophile, then my lips are sealed forever.*Obviously, this is a very simplistic view and the person in this hypothetical situation is facing an agonising life altering decision. I find my answers are always found within, if I just listen to my gut and moral compass.I'm sending love and support to whoever may be faced with this.
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RHP User
13 years ago
A research paper, thank God.I was worried about you Shinas
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RHP User
13 years ago
I will explain on the original post......and the reason why and what came out of it if this forum keeps going.Im hoping someone will read the scenario and follow the instructions/or questions to the T - there is no more information that can be supplied to you - you've actually got it all !!! I could give you hints..but thats cheating..................so you lovely little peeps out there stop private messaging me !!!...naughty peeps
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RHP User
13 years ago
I stand by my man. I wait. I may snoop a little myself but I tend to keep my suspiscions to myself until I discover my own truths. Not interested in the police evidence or what the courts may decide as I have known both to get it completely wronmg on numerous occassions. I am sorry but innocent people do get convicted of heinous crimes.. If I consider him still innocent then I will wait out the ten years, file for appeals, visit prisons do what is necessary. I do not cut and run at the first sign of things not being picture perfect. When in a relationship I am in it for the good and the bad...and I have the staying power to go the distance. If I love someone...it is normally for life.
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RHP User
13 years ago
First point. Yes. I would question them again and again, mulling it over in my brain the loose ends that didn't fit. I would not take my suspicions to the police if I wasn't 100% sure (as they say it can be taken to use against you in court). I wouldn't so much question him especially if they have had no prior existence of said behaviour that was involved in this crime but I would want to know all the evidence that was being used against imaginary partner...but do they even give them access to this prior to it going to court? If it's just a charge, arrested,.never known before to have ever done anything,blah blah as you say, I'd have a degree of doubt. I'd support till I had factually legitimate evidence to the contrary, but it would take DNA, witnesses etc for me to change my mind. Then I'd be crushed at my total lack of judgement. Innocent until proven guilty.
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RHP User
13 years ago
1. I would ask the partner why he thought he was under suspicion. 2. I would wait for the police to question me and only answer to what I knew to be true. 3. I wouldn't normally snoop but under these circumstances I might. 4. I would continually question my role. 5. 5. I would support the partner (within the confines of the law only). 6. I would not help them leave the country.
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RHP User
13 years ago
What a great hypothetical, really interesting... I'd love to get the reference of the research paper to have a look myself. Any act of violence would be so ridiculously, incredibly out of character for my partner (he doesn't even raise his voice) that I would definitely doubt the police evidence rather than his innocence. In terms of niggling doubts from the police evidence, I am aware that you do have a tendency to over-analyse normal innocent behaviour when there is a change in some circumstances. So I wouldn't immediately jump to conclusions. I think my response would be (I guess you don't know how you'd actually respond) to question my partner about the inconsistencies, try to get the real story. I think I would also consult with a professional (like a psychologist, depending on the state's reporting requirements as the information I give in that session may not be completely confidential in some states) before speaking to police about it. I've been led to believe that forensic science is not the most robust and there is a fair element of error and speculation to it. I would certainly seek out the best possible legal representation for my partner, even if that meant going into a large amount of debt to acquire it.
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RHP User
13 years ago
Do you confront your partner and question them again and again, who is stil claiming complete innocence ? Confront yes, not sure about again and again, only if the evidence at hand changed.Do you take your suspicions to the police ? Not unless the evidence was overwhelming.Do you say nothing ? Not really in my nature ;)Do you start snooping ? I'm certainly not going to trust third party evidence without some review. If I thought some digging would enlighten things then yes. Do you question your own role in this ? No way man, I'm innocent! You can't prove a thing! Do you, even with some nagging little doubts stand by your partner 100 percent ? Yes, at least until the evidence is overwhelming. If it's something really horrible as suggested, and she actually did it, well then she's not the woman I thought she was. She's still the mother of my children however so I doubt she'd be thrown straight to the wolves. Do you help them leave the country - even if they are protesting their innocence ? If I thought she was about to be jailed for something she didn't do or had a hint that an injustice was imminent then yes probably. Definitely not if I believed she was guilty.As I've mentioned on other topics I believe there are some laws made to be broken. But the scenario says I find this crime repulsive and heinous so let's assume it's a real crime.I'm also well aware that just because the police say you are guilty does not make it so. I would take some convincing.But of course what we all say we would do and what actually happens are very often two different things, which is usually the point of such thought exercises.So Shinas how is our hypothetical partner in trouble going to get out of this one?Mr C
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RHP User
13 years ago
Thankyou for posting It is a hypothetical and I'm busting to tell you the "point" as already your post has revealed a little about you I will wait a few more days to see if there are a few more posts ..... As I said this was a great place to put it out to a cross section of the community because the original research paper was only subjected to direct professions ...:) To all who have played so far, thank you for your brave posts and playing Cheers Shinas
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RHP User
13 years ago
... a doozey! You sure have an interesting job! When I first read your post my initial reaction was how could you possibly know how you would react. Even a professional acting out in a professional capacity has emotions which ultimately may take over (does that make sense?!). And I personally don't have any real life experience to draw on, so again - how can you truly predict what you would do? I know I have been in situations where I thought I would crumble but have sailed through like a pro, been brave where I thought I would not cope etc. I do like these "games" but best played with a fun group and a good bottle of port ;-) KK xx
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RHP User
13 years ago
Unless it was a crime engaging in any form of pedophilia or a psychopathic crime such as mass murder, serial killing/rape of people or animals, I would stand by my loved one and aid/assist as much as possible (with the impact on my children being the limiting factor) whether I believed they were innocent or not. Msfun
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RHP User
13 years ago
Do you confront your partner and question them again and again, who is stil claiming complete innocence ? I would question them yes, i would want to know their side of the story and try understand what has happend and his role in it. Do you take your suspicions to the police ? I wouldnt volunteer information but have to assume that as the partner i would be questioned by the police and yes i would answer all questions honestly Do you say nothing ? mmmm in reference to the above question, then i guess no Do you start snooping ? Considering i am 'suspicious' then yes i would. Getting to the bottom of the truth would be too much for my curiosity... Do you question your own role in this ? Not at all, im a good girl Do you, even with some nagging little doubts stand by your partner 100 percent ? I cant answer this one either way Shinas... part of me wants to say yes i would, but if my snooping and evidence provided by the police was overwhelming... then probably no..... i dont know... Do you help them leave the country - even if they are protesting their innocence ? Nope... no aiding and abetting for me
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RHP User
13 years ago
... to clarify the "questioning my role bit" :-/ I would question myself in the respect of: is there something I have missed in relation to my partners character, was there anything I could have done to prevent it (if indeed he turns out to be guilty) etc Bugger, I can't stop thinking about this now!!!
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RHP User
13 years ago
Sorry .................................. but its got you thinking
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RHP User
13 years ago
When are you going to put us out of our misery? What us the theory and the independent and dependent variables? Sooo curious I need to know what this paper is researching!! - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
13 years ago
Just wanting a few more posters (hopefully ) to respond as Im trying to get a cross section and more, maybe different responses.... - its only a day old thread..so hopefully get a few more contributors,before the end of the week ..promise to revel all and put every one out their curious misery.... On the up side...my inbox has been flooded.............. but not one person wanted to bonk me just pick my brain Just to clarify - the research has already been done...
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RHP User
13 years ago
Your loved one has only been charged, not convicted. The police don't decide guilt or innocence, they just make a call as to whether there is enough evidence that a court can make that determination. The sufficiency test for prosecutions boils down to whether a jury COULD make a finding of guilt given all the evidence. Of course in the hypothetical, if you come across evidence itself. Whether you provide it to the investigators or become an accessory after the fact is a personal choice. Not an easy one I wouldn't think. But then ethics is rarely about easy choices :)
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RHP User
13 years ago
... would love to know the findings. KK xx
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